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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Then, compared the HD market (17 months old) to the CURRENT DVD market (10+ YEARS old). Fine, let us compare apples to apples then. At 17 months old, how many HD discs have been sold and how many HD players are there in U.S. homes? DVD doesn't have those numbers...at least none I could find...but the first batch of DVDs were released in March of 1997. By the end of 1998, that's 22 months in, there were 1.4 million DVD players in U.S. homes. Total discs sold for that year, 1998, was 23 million. Is HD going to come anywhere close to those numbers this year? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Those weren't the numbers I've seen. Source? Is this it?First DVD player went on sale in November 1996 according to this article. Plus, that's 23 million DVDs sold in more than 25 months (not just movie titles). Let's find out if the HD market can reach those numbers. The player mark has already been broke for a while...and 100,000 shipped for a title. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
...and 100,000 shipped for a title. I remind the intelligent readers that the Sgt. Peppers' soundtrack album shipped multi-platinum, yet sales were not even gold... Shipping is not selling. What we have here is a niche market. Some people love being harbingers of the latest technologies. If they get too strident in the joy of spreading their propaganda, we refer to them as fanboys. It is hip to be on the outside, right on the cutting edge, honestly believing you know more about something new and cool than the general population. But just because you live a life "On the Road" doesn't make Kerouac the best writer in history, or even the 20th Century. HD discs may become more popular and make more money than any other format in history. Or they may be replaced by a newer technology before they completely catch on. Time will tell. To quote Terry Southern, "You're just too hip, baby." I love HD, compare to lesser definition media -- "better" is, by tautology, better. But sometimes the best gets surpassed by better... the market is a fickle thing. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff | | | | Last edited: by VibroCount |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Those weren't the numbers I've seen. Source?
Is this it? Yes, that is the source. Quote:
First DVD player went on sale in November 1996 according to this article. Read what I wrote. I said the first batch of DVDs were released in March of 1997. I said nothing about when DVD players went on sale. Besides, I was talking U.S. homes. The fact that DVD players went on sale in Japan in November of 1996 has nothing to do with the U.S. numbers. Quote:
Plus, that's 23 million DVDs sold in more than 25 months (not just movie titles). Did you read what the article said? Let me quote it for you since it seems you didn't... December. 1.4 million DVD players are in U.S. homes; 23 million discs are sold for the year. Computer makers announce shipments of 6 million PCs with DVD drives.See what it says there? Sold for the year, not since inception. That means they sold 23 million disc in 1998 alone, not in more than 25 months. Quote:
Let's find out if the HD market can reach those numbers. The player mark has already been broke for a while...and 100,000 shipped for a title. Talk to me when an HD title ships 1 million units.  Here is another number that you might want to guage it by...how many total HD titles are there 17 months into this? At 14 months in, there were 1000 DVD titles out. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | Anyone already read this article ` Why Blu-Ray Should Never Have Existed: Technology Lesson Learned`? It is actually pretty insightful... even for a Blu-ray Blu-ray-less-player-and-software backer... It kinda shocked the sh%t out of me... And I wonder why Disney isn't saying they were NOT payed off... At the question Warner (obviously because they are (still) neutral in this whole thing), 20th Century Fox and Sony Pictures (obviously) answered "No" while Disney answered "No comment"? Why would they actually do that? AND last but not least, when will Disney make the switch? With Disney it is always about the money, it has always been, and it will always be (I can say that as a big Disney supporter/fan), and they are leaving loads of money... | | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
...and 100,000 shipped for a title.
I remind the intelligent readers that the Sgt. Peppers' soundtrack album shipped multi-platinum, yet sales were not even gold...
Shipping is not selling. Shipping is selling to the retailers. Shipping is not selling through to the customer. That was DVD's milestone I used as a measure. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting JP_S: Quote:
Anyone already read this article `Why Blu-Ray Should Never Have Existed: Technology Lesson Learned`?
It is actually pretty insightful... even for a Blu-ray Blu-ray-less-player-and-software backer...
It kinda shocked the sh%t out of me...
And I wonder why Disney isn't saying they were NOT payed off... At the question Warner (obviously because they are (still) neutral in this whole thing), 20th Century Fox and Sony Pictures (obviously) answered "No" while Disney answered "No comment"? Why would they actually do that?
AND last but not least, when will Disney make the switch? With Disney it is always about the money, it has always been, and it will always be (I can say that as a big Disney supporter/fan), and they are leaving loads of money... Excellent read! Thanks for posting the link to the article  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | the last paragraph of the Blu-ray article should be read very closely by some on this forum:
Wrapping Up
Getting excited about cool technology is great; letting that excitement get in the way of good judgment can be expensive. In looking back, I actually wasn’t asking the right questions either, and know better (I initially supported Blu-Ray and assumed Sony wasn’t foolish enough to sacrifice the PS3 for Blu-Ray). So this is as much a reminder for me as it is for you. Remember if a product:
1. Can’t stand on its own;
2. Has competitive advantages that actual customers don’t care about; and
3. Can’t possibly meet cost targets on time. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,029 |
| | Posted: | | | | You forgot: Quote:
Maybe there is a fourth rule having to do with Sony. | | | | Matthias |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
First DVD player went on sale in November 1996 according to this article.
Read what I wrote. I said the first batch of DVDs were released in March of 1997. I said nothing about when DVD players went on sale. Besides, I was talking U.S. homes. The fact that DVD players went on sale in Japan in November of 1996 has nothing to do with the U.S. numbers.
Quote:
Plus, that's 23 million DVDs sold in more than 25 months (not just movie titles).
Did you read what the article said? Let me quote it for you since it seems you didn't...
December. 1.4 million DVD players are in U.S. homes; 23 million discs are sold for the year. Computer makers announce shipments of 6 million PCs with DVD drives.
See what it says there? Sold for the year, not since inception. That means they sold 23 million disc in 1998 alone, not in more than 25 months.
Quote:
Let's find out if the HD market can reach those numbers. The player mark has already been broke for a while...and 100,000 shipped for a title.
Talk to me when an HD title ships 1 million units.
Here is another number that you might want to guage it by...how many total HD titles are there 17 months into this? At 14 months in, there were 1000 DVD titles out. Yes, yes, 23 million for the year. Check these out. This information is a bit more specific over time. CEA DVD Player Sales (SI)DVD Stats (under- How is DVD doing? Where can I get statistics?) Start at..." Here's reality:" 60 DVD-ROM titles in the first year (mostly bundled) 75 DVD-ROM titles available in the second year By the end of 1998, 7.2 million DVD-Video discs purchased (Remember launch was Nov. 1996 and these are not just DVD-ROM purchases) At the end of 20 months, in the U.S., DVD players sold 1.4 million players --------------- Blu-ray alone beats most of these numbers. Blu-ray is only 14 months old. Blu-ray discs has probably sold around 5 million or more (remember...this is everything worldwide) already. If you add HD DVD's number in that, the HD market is mostly on track. That's what I've been telling you for the longest. Of course, it probably won't maintain, if this format war continues for much longer. As you can see, this is a far cry from comparing a new market to a 10 year old market. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Battling Butler: Quote:
the last paragraph of the Blu-ray article should be read very closely by some on this forum:
Wrapping Up
Getting excited about cool technology is great; letting that excitement get in the way of good judgment can be expensive. In looking back, I actually wasn’t asking the right questions either, and know better (I initially supported Blu-Ray and assumed Sony wasn’t foolish enough to sacrifice the PS3 for Blu-Ray). So this is as much a reminder for me as it is for you. Remember if a product:
1. Can’t stand on its own;
2. Has competitive advantages that actual customers don’t care about; and
3. Can’t possibly meet cost targets on time.  Now, THAT is a really logical article. I think I saw something in that article about the Chupacabra! j/k But, seriously, you can't think this an accurate piece of journalism...can you? Look: 1. Do you mean like the MS Xbox 360 add-on drive provides a crutch to HD DVD (accounting for half of player sales or more)? 2. You mean the customer doesn't care about consistently have great PQ and SQ? Well, the more bandwidth and space available...the better. 3. That's the way they thought it was going to be, but Blu-ray costs have proven not to be much different on the retooling end than HD DVD. $199 BD Drive. What is the cost of an HD DVD drive these days? Rob Enderle is FAR from an accurate blogger. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | Why do you always argue "lifecycle" when it is completely irrelevant to the argument??? I don't give a damn about how great DVD did almost 10 years ago 17 months into its "lifecycle". The RELEVANCE here is simple...blu-ray supporters and the BDA love to spout off about a 2-1 sales lead, however that 2-1 lead is less than 1% of the entire movie sales pie, meaning that more than 99% of the movie buying public is still buying DVDs, not blu-ray or even hd-dvds. With such a miniscule segment of home media movie sales being hi-def format, clearly the general public is not embracing these new formats, they remain faithful and loyal to DVD, yet you and other fanboys along with the BDA think it is relevant that blu-ray outsells hd-dvd 2 to 1. The Ant vs the Flea analogy is dead on, let me know when you become a cockroach at least!!! | | | | My Collection!!! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Calidain: Quote:
Why do you always argue "lifecycle" when it is completely irrelevant to the argument??? I don't give a damn about how great DVD did almost 10 years ago 17 months into its "lifecycle". The RELEVANCE here is simple...blu-ray supporters and the BDA love to spout off about a 2-1 sales lead, however that 2-1 lead is less than 1% of the entire movie sales pie, meaning that more than 99% of the movie buying public is still buying DVDs, not blu-ray or even hd-dvds.
With such a miniscule segment of home media movie sales being hi-def format, clearly the general public is not embracing these new formats, they remain faithful and loyal to DVD, yet you and other fanboys along with the BDA think it is relevant that blu-ray outsells hd-dvd 2 to 1.
The Ant vs the Flea analogy is dead on, let me know when you become a cockroach at least!!!
You are doing the equivalent of judging a toddler to the merits of a 4th grader...and you don't care. That's fine, but know that it's not even in the same league as a fair or "apples to apples" comparison...period. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is not about comparing Hi-Def format to DVD...this is about the idiotic argument that Blu-Ray is going to win the format war because they have an INSIGNIFICANT 2 to 1 sales lead over HD-DVD.
DVD's only role in this discussion is to show how stupidly insignificant that 2 to 1 sales lead is!!!
Pull your head out of your arse and read what people type...damn you are annoying!!! | | | | My Collection!!! | | | | Last edited: by Calidain |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
$199 BD Drive. What is the cost of an HD DVD drive these days? $179.99 And it comes with 8 free HD DVDs from Amazon right now. What does the BenQ come with? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Calidain: Quote:
This is not about comparing Hi-Def format to DVD...this is about the idiotic argument that Blu-Ray is going to win the format war because they have an INSIGNIFICANT 2 to 1 sales lead over HD-DVD.
DVD's only role in this discussion is to show how stupidly insignificant that 2 to 1 sales lead is!!!
Pull your head out of your arse and read what people type...damn you are annoying!!! Sorry. I thought you typed this... Quote:
Why do you always argue "lifecycle" when it is completely irrelevant to the argument??? I don't give a damn about how great DVD did almost 10 years ago 17 months into its "lifecycle". The RELEVANCE here is simple...blu-ray supporters and the BDA love to spout off about a 2-1 sales lead, however that 2-1 lead is less than 1% of the entire movie sales pie, meaning that more than 99% of the movie buying public is still buying DVDs, not blu-ray or even hd-dvds. I wonder who typed that? Anyway, I've explained this in great length to you in the past. If you didn't get it then, you probably won't get it now. Therefore, I will not waste anymore words talking about the order of things. Instead, I will give you an example. DVD vs. DiVx. The market was VHS's by around the same margin as DVD now. Did DVD and DiVx have to get really huge before one was killed? Or, did DVD beat DiVx and THEN got strong enough, over time, to take VHS down? | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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