Quoting Battling Butler:

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let's see:  (1) AcS attempts to defended unsupported statement: "Usually, sooner or later...most times later." [note: the plain meaning of "sooner or later" is anytime, but usually later in time]

Unsupported, how?  Unsupported by giving (as you said..."concrete") examples like earthquake technology, low fuel consumption and clean energy technologies?

As a matter of fact, I'm sure you have heard of the iPhone by Apple.  One of the most advanced cell phone in the US.  Check out the Japanese.  Who knows when this technology will make it to the US?  Like I said before, usually sooner or later (that is unless you have a time frame, Battling Butler).

Wait, why am I even wasting my time on this logical attempt at logic?!  I will make an effort to stop responding to such folly in the future.

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(2) Unicus points out the fallacy of AcS' statement with a concrete example: "Yeah, like we all ended up with Betamax tape machines."

(3) AsC immediately abandons his unsupported statement [and implication of"anytime, but usually later"] by replying with a non-sequitur: "Wrong era" 

....... and so it goes in the warped world that is A*S

Quoting Unicus69:

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Thank you for helping me prove my point.  For every 1 person like you there could be 2, 3, 10, 100, etc that use it only as a gaming console.  That is why you can't include the PS3 in the figures for stand alone Blu-ray players.

Only you mentioned counting them as "standalone" Blu-ray players.  I said they are Blu-ray players and should be counted as such.  I never said they ARE standalone players.    That is why I find this argument to be so ridiculous.  The PS3 has a BD-ROM drive and the associated software in it making it a Blu-ray player.  That is why the only logical way, I could think of, to argue the point of the PS3 not being counted as a Blu-ray player is if it didn't play Blu-ray discs (BDs).

So, when I say Blu-ray player you immediately think "standalone" in your head?  That would be interesting, if that's true.

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I should also note that the figures given by that group didn't include the HD DVD add-on.

Huh?  Show me where it says that.  The article we are talking about doesn't not mention the exclusion of the HD DVD add-ons.  Furthermore, it more than likely includes HD DVD laptop drives.  That article just said the HD DVD group sold 200,000 HD DVD players (every HD DVD product is considered a player).  In other words, there were most likely comparing everything on the HD DVD side to just the standalone Blu-ray player sales.  They didn't count Blu-ray PC drives (that have been out for a long time) or Blu-ray laptops w/ BD drives (which both have burning capabilities and been out for quite some time).

Yeah, that's REALLY fair reporting, right?.  But, you swallowed that report whole as fair unbiased reporting.  And, that's the problem.  How many others are out there looking at these types of reports with blinders on?

Now, THAT'S HD DVD Evangelism!

To imagine that either HD DVD or Blu-Ray are winning a war with so very close numbers is ludicrous. Together thay make up less than 1% of their potential market. Neither is winning, and neither will for a number of years. Even today, very few people in the USA have HD TVs, and, of those, even fewer have HD format disc players. With 480 upgrade (to 1080) DVD players selling at Radio Shack for well under $100 each (and less at the discount houses), and current DVD collections (or the ease of Netflix & other rental services), it will be (I can only guess) a couple years before even the majority of the USA have HD TVs. Even my family is asking me about digital-to-analog converter boxes they will need to see the digital broadcasts of 2009, not about buying HD TVs.

There is a long way to go before DVD dies away. Most people cannot see the difference between 480 and 1080, let alone 720... They see it as money-grubbing, not visible technical advancement. HD format is not winning at all. A number of things must happen before either can claim any victory: Far more people must get HD TVs, and the cost of these must continue to drop before that will occur; in addition to recent blockbusters, great classic films must be available in the HD format(s); the price of the HD DVD and Blu-Ray must drop considerably; these discs must be as readily available through Netflix and Blockbuster, etc.; and, of course, the new players must cost much less than $200 (perhaps even less than $100). Without these criteria being met, non-HD DVD will enjoy a very long life.

I still wouldn't bet on either format winning. A non-mechanical method of storing and delivering HD content is far more imaginable of occurring sooner than the majority of US residents buying HD TVs. Technology will outstrip the formats before they gain any kind of majority.

Look how long it took CDs to kill off both LPs and cassettes. And how fast mp3 is killing Tower Records & other CD merchants who cannot adapt.

Quoting Calidain:

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I hate to even get into this argument, but seriously you sound more like a PR man for SONY than a casual Blu-Ray fan!!!

Maybe it's a side effect from all the research I have done to decide what format is most logical last year.

While researching in Aug./Sept., It was essential for me to put emotion aside to make the most logical choice.  After the choice was made, I put my emotion it.  After all, a high def movie experience is suppose to be an emotional one.  Emotion is needed to enjoy it.  But, no matter how I might feel about something truth is truth and I won't fight it.

It may sound like I'm a BDA PR man (not Sony...Sony is not Blu-ray), but my talk is usually backed up with a good portion of evidence (articles and numbers from mostly reliable sources).  I have not scene this much at all from a lot of HD DVD supporters (I have from some but not most).  It seems as if most of the arguments are based off of faith and not facts.  Also, a lot of the arguments seem to either negate past events or dwell on past issues that no longer exist.

I can now, pretty much, tell when information is not plausible when I read it.  I have researched both sides to the point of knowing most of the capabilities.  A lot of others haven't done that level of research.  So, when I say something is not true, some people look at it as arrogance or whatever.  When I provide the proof, they are too emotionally charged to understand it.  They are too busy defending HD DVD to even consider the information provided.  For instance, I knew the LPCM has better sound than the TrueHD HD DVD has been using on Warner Bros titles.  People argued with about this stating I didn't know what I was talking about and these people didn't even know there were two different types of TrueHD streams (FBA and FBB).  Therefore, they didn't know the FBB stream is not lossless but lossy.  They were speaking while not fully knowing about the subject they were speaking of.  I must admit these things annoy me.

The funny thing is that at the talks (before Blu-ray and HD DVD decided on war).  Toshiba and MS agreed that Blu-ray was the better format in just about every way, but it wasn't ready for the public.  Now, that it IS ready for the public, Toshiba will not step down.  But, in retrospect, if it wasn't for HD DVD pushing Blu-ray, we would not see these advancement it the technology this quickly.  So, I must thank HD DVD for that.  But, as for all the misinformation and mudsling HD DVD started last year (and occasionally this year), I can't stand.  So, I will fight it with truth whenever it shows up to the party.

If nothing is done, a lie told a million times becomes the truth.  I don't want a lie to become the truth, so I fight it with vigor.  I apologize if that makes me sound like a BDA PR man.

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Thank you for helping me prove my point.  For every 1 person like you there could be 2, 3, 10, 100, etc that use it only as a gaming console.  That is why you can't include the PS3 in the figures for stand alone Blu-ray players.

Only you mentioned counting them as "standalone" Blu-ray players.  I said they are Blu-ray players and should be counted as such.  I never said they ARE standalone players.    That is why I find this argument to be so ridiculous.  The PS3 has a BD-ROM drive and the associated software in it making it a Blu-ray player.  That is why the only logical way, I could think of, to argue the point of the PS3 not being counted as a Blu-ray player is if it didn't play Blu-ray discs (BDs).

So, when I say Blu-ray player you immediately think "standalone" in your head?  That would be interesting, if that's true.

You really have a short memory don't you.  YOU said, and I quote, "The truth is the standalone player sales were near even.  And, if you are just counting "players", you must count the PS3 to be accurate (it is a movie player)."

You said they should count the PS3 in with the standalone players.  The article, after all was about 'standalone player sales'.  Or did I misread what you wrote? 

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I should also note that the figures given by that group didn't include the HD DVD add-on.

Huh?  Show me where it says that.  The article we are talking about doesn't not mention the exclusion of the HD DVD add-ons.  Furthermore, it more than likely includes HD DVD laptop drives.  That article just said the HD DVD group sold 200,000 HD DVD players (every HD DVD product is considered a player).  In other words, there were most likely comparing everything on the HD DVD side to just the standalone Blu-ray player sales.  They didn't count Blu-ray PC drives (that have been out for a long time) or Blu-ray laptops w/ BD drives (which both have burning capabilities and been out for quite some time).

You should have learned by now that I don't make statements I can't back up.  You really should read the articles you link to before you open your mouth.  From the article:

However, Blu-ray enthusiasts might count the numbers as a victory because they did not include sales of the PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside. (The totals also did not include sales of Microsoft's XBox 360 HD-DVD attachment, but they are estimated to be far less than the PS3.)

Go ahead, let that sink in for a minute then rethink all the unfounded accusations of unfairness that you just spouted in the previous paragraph. 

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Yeah, that's REALLY fair reporting, right?.  But, you swallowed that report whole as fair unbiased reporting.  And, that's the problem.  How many others are out there looking at these types of reports with blinders on?

Unlike you, I actually read the whole article.  You seem to have stopped when you got to the advertisement...just an FYI, a lot of online articles insert and ad in the middle of the story.

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Now, THAT'S HD DVD Evangelism!

Replace HD DVD with Blu-ray and you have it right.  You see, I haven't made a choice yet.  My only purpose is to add fairness to your biased opinions.  90% of what I say comes from articles you provide.  I guess I should thank you for not reading your own 'proof'. 

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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.  A press release should be coming soon.

I'm sure it will be.  The BDA is very good about press releases.

Quoting Unicus69:

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You should have learned by now that I don't make statements I can't back up.  You really should read the articles you link to before you open your mouth.  From the article:

However, Blu-ray enthusiasts might count the numbers as a victory because they did not include sales of the PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside. (The totals also did not include sales of Microsoft's XBox 360 HD-DVD attachment, but they are estimated to be far less than the PS3.)

Go ahead, let that sink in for a minute then rethink all the unfounded accusations of unfairness that you just spouted in the previous paragraph.

Now, I would like everyone to go back to page 7 and  look at my post on March 19, 2007 at 2:03pm.  This is post we both have been referring to (the breakdown of 200,000 HD DVD players vs. 30,000 standalone Blu-ray players only) UNTIL he quoted something from the article only talking about standalone players sales being near even...not whether the PS3 should be counted as a Blu-ray player and how some articles have biased reporting towards HD DVD (which was what we were discussing).

Now, here is usually where he tries to spin something out of nothing by saying something like...That wasn't the article I was talking about (then make some rude insult towards me).

This is what I'm up against.  It appears that I’m up against someone that is not concerned with the truth, but someone just trying to discredit the guy trying to tell you the truth.

Now, please excuse me.  I need to go pick up the Blu-ray releases for this week.

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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This is post we both have been referring to (the breakdown of 200,000 HD DVD players vs. 30,000 standalone Blu-ray players only) UNTIL he quoted something from the article only talking about standalone players sales being near even...not whether the PS3 should be counted as a Blu-ray player and how some articles have biased reporting towards HD DVD (which was what we were discussing).

Yes, let us go back to page 7 where you said, and I quote, "The truth is the standalone player sales were near even.  And, if you are just counting "players", you must count the PS3 to be accurate (it is a movie player).

That is what I was responding to when I said, again I quote, "No you shouldn't and for exactly the reason that was stated in the article."  That last bit was in reference to the article you quoted.

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Now, here is usually where he tries to spin something out of nothing by saying something like...That wasn't the article I was talking about (then make some rude insult towards me).

YOU made a statement that PS3s must be included.  That statement is what I commented on...go back and look at the post.  I quoted one line, and one line only.  So no spin or insult is needed...you are digging your own hole quite well without my help. 

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This is what I'm up against.  It appears that I’m up against someone that is not concerned with the truth, but someone just trying to discredit the guy trying to tell you the truth.

You are up against your inability to comprehend multiple discussions at the same time.  See later on, on page 7 I quoted the article concerning the NPD Group.  Take note the word 'group', you will need to remember that in a second.  On the top of page 8 I say, "I should also note that the figures given by that group didn't include the HD DVD add-on."  Again, notice the word 'group'?  I was still referring to the article concerning the NPD Group.  To which you responded, "HuH?  Show me where it says that."  Followed by a bunch of unfounded accusations.

I showed you where it said that and, instead of admitting that you missed it, you wrote all this useless garbage.  It is unfortunate that you can't seem to keep up.  I will attempt to slow it down next time. 

Do you see what I mean?