What I see is more of the same.

Nothing's going to change until Invelos makes it happen.

Quoting Gerri Cole:

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We strive to moderate as fairly as humanly possible, taking into account that moderation is almost by definition filled with subjective analysis made by as many different judges as we have moderators.

An additional factor I think is that there are time gaps in moderation. When those gaps get long and the mood is simultaneously bad, things really get bad in the forums. It gives the appearance that certain things are ok since they are not being moderated at that time.

Quoting Gerri Cole:

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We also tend to give more warning to users who are facing a longer ban, but are reevaluating that policy.

Since warnings are given privately, this can give users the impression that nothing is being done. I think when posts are moderated and the moderated users drop out of the discussion for a while, things calm down. I can understand warnings for people who may not have been moderated much before, if at all. But warning an already heavily moderated user seems unnecessary. Also, warnings to the moderated are at the expense of those attacked, who are unaware that anything is being done. If you want to encourage the attacked users that things will get better and to stick around, they have to be able to perceive somehow that moderation will better things soon.

James:

As I have said, self-moderation is the answer now that does call for cooperation by all concerned. Moderation achieves nothing and has only made the atmosphere here increasingly hostile, as users, yourself included, lobby for blood, you want it and you want it publicly, you want to see the offender in the Stocks, man, you would have been great at Salem. (that's a joke, son). Personally I am insulted and embarassed that as group we can't control ourselves, we have to have Mommy or Daddy come take of our dirty pants for us.      

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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James:

As I have said, self-moderation is the answer now that does call for cooperation by all concerned. Moderation achieves nothing and has only made the atmosphere here increasingly hostile, as users, yourself included, lobby for blood, you want it and you want it publicly, you want to see the offender in the Stocks, man, you would have been great at Salem. (that's a joke, son). Personally I am insulted and embarassed that as group we can't control ourselves, we have to have Mommy or Daddy come take of our dirty pants for us.      

I would like to see a note or symbol displayed to show that a user has been suspended or banned so that it would be communicated to everyone. I've seen it on other forums. Invelos doesn't want to do that however.

But even in the absence of that, when moderated users drop out of the forums, it's noticeable and the atmosphere improves. If Invelos would get to the temp ban stage a little more quickly, things would improve in my opinion.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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What makes you believe the warnings are private, James. They aren't and seldom have been in my experience. Perhaps I am better at reading such things, i don't know, 

Skip

If they aren't private then I don't know where they are. 

Quoting Kinky Cyborg:

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Quoting CharlieM:

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Basically to me this said "Here is a dig at you skip, but after I take this swipe at you, I'll meet you in the middle"

That is the way I saw it.

Sure it was a swipe... that is short for constructive criticism, isn't it? 

In all seriousness though, Skip has repeatedly denounced a rather large group of us that he has lumped together and labeled as miscreants. In the same breath (or keystrokes) he completely denies any culpability on his own part and campaigns for peace... but completely flies off the handle the moment someone suggests he might be part of the problem.

I freely admit that I have let my feelings contribute to the escalation of hostilities in these forums. I don't deny it, I don't try to hide it, I'll wear it like a badge on the sleeve of my shirt. If trying to illuminate Skip, a task that has been attempted by many a user now to which has proven to be a wasted undertaking, is to be viewed as an attack on him by you Charlie, or any other user then I will withdraw and say no more. I will leave however with the knowledge that I was at least willing to be reasonable. I believe that given the level of frustration the other members have felt in dealing with him they have also been as reasonable as can be expected and shown considerable amounts of restraint, with the exception of the avatar mocking which I thought was in poor taste.

When somebody else asks me to bow out other than Skip, I'll leave.

KC

Let's see if I can analyze this correctly, kinky,. You CLAIM that ofr ease here I'll use the other side has been reasonable as can be expected. That, while i doubt it, I will acceopt your hypthesis for purposes of this exercise. I too, have tried to be reasonable,mkore than can be expected, for may years and what I get for it is spat upon by users from that other group. I get attacked by users who were not going to post again on this topic but simply couldn't help themselves. Do you not see the loggerhead here. I have gone on public record extending my hand in peace and friendship and i think a couple of users have taken me up on it, but there are others such as yourself Kinky, and others, who not only refuse to accept a peace offering, but you have all but told me what I can do with myself. In the face of that i am supposed to remain calm, cool and collected. I have news for you and Double Down (since all he wants is to be confrontational) and i have to look at his latest spewing as I type this, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. I have made the offer and it stands, if you want to continue to act like elementary school bullies all ganging up on their prey, this prey will fight back. Please take note Geri, that I have tried and they want none of it. I will NOT lay down for them, if you want to ban me so be it, but you damn well better take out a whole bunch and I will provide a list if I have to. This not something that I want to do or that I choose to do, but I have never run from a fight and i will NOT start now.

These people have shown themselves for exactly what they are just a bunch of grade school bullies ganging up one individual and declaing him to be the bad guy, when the bad guy is THEM. I assume that Invelos can see that. They have exposed themselves with their hatred.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Sadly Geri, this thread is going the same way all such threads go.

Interesting observation. I went back and looked at the first page(s) to try to see what happened.

Quoting DoubleDownAgain:

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I think self-moderation has proven NOT to work since some users have the inability to moderate themselves.

Agreed.  Self moderation is not the answer, never has been.  Consistent moderation is the only answer.

If I were to offer my hand in friendship as often as you have with absolutely no takers I think I would have developed quite the complex by now.

Stick your hand back in your pocket Skip. I don't need to be your friend in order to make a commitment to conform to the moderation guidelines. Nor do I need your approval or blessing in order to be a helpful, productive member of these forums.

I hereby commit to be the best I can be, to show restraint in my comments, and to treat my fellow board members with respect, both veterans and newcomers. I commit to contribute to a more friendly, co-operative atmosphere and I should expect the same in return. Let my actions from this point on be judged and compared to the above pledge, and should I fail to uphold the standards I have set for myself, let me be dealt with accordingly.

I challenge any and all other users whose integrity has been called into question to clarify their purpose and intent here in the forums to make a similar commitment. Maybe this can be a starting point.

*shrug* I don't know...

KC