This whole discussion has been launched because the "Common Name" (linking name, Alias, credited as, whatever you want to call it) is seriously broken.

The fix to this problem is not to fix the credits in the database (although that does need to be done and is a good thing).

The fix is a different solution to linking.  this one is not working and cannot work as designed.

There either has to be a way of determining a "Common Name" which will never change regardless of how our database morphs, or there has to be a way to directly link all variations of the way someone has been credited.

Fixing the credits in the database (which will never be complete), is at best putting a band-aid on the problem.  We need a complete solution; not a band-aid.

Quoting hal9g:

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This whole discussion has been launched because the "Common Name" (linking name, Alias, credited as, whatever you want to call it) is seriously broken.

The fix to this problem is not to fix the credits in the database (although that does need to be done and is a good thing).

The fix is a different solution to linking.  this one is not working and cannot work as designed.

There either has to be a way of determining a "Common Name" which will never change regardless of how our database morphs, or there has to be a way to directly link all variations of the way someone has been credited.

Fixing the credits in the database (which will never be complete), is at best putting a band-aid on the problem.  We need a complete solution; not a band-aid.

OK we now know what's wrong, but we knew that before.
SOLUTIONS PLEASE (and I intended to scream!)

Quoting hal9g:

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And just how do you know that there are no differences between releases from different regions without actually having the DVD and comparing them?

I don't, as I wrote in a post above

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But still I'd rather accept a Profile where only minor changes must be made, than a profile that's been contributed without even taking a look at any end credits, not speaking of the end credits of the DVD in question.
And it's not like the corrections that Skip wants to make would be hammered in stone. They could be corrected where needed (Like for example from cinema version to director's cut or extended version).

See, when we try to work out the flaws to improve the idea, and not just scream "It has flaws, it's ugly! Put it away", we really might find a way out, but only then.

EDIT: @Enry "Carved" was the word I was looking for. Thanks

Quoting hal9g:

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I've already described what the solution needs to be.

There needs to be a linking table within the database which essentially says that:

Robert Downey Jr = Robert Downey, Jr = Robert Downey, Jr. = Robert Downey (if appropriate)

As people discover alternate versions of someone's credit, they submit it to Invelos for inclusion in the table with full documentation to prove that it is linked to the name(s) they claim.  The linking table would have to be downloaded to each users local database as part of updates.

Profiles would ONLY include the "Credited as" name as it appears in the actual film credit. Simple.

This solution is entirely independent of "cleaning up" the existing database.  Even "wrong" profiles could have credits linked.

Let's keep in mind what the goal is.  Click on an actor's name, regardless of which form, and see all of the films/shows they have appeared in.

Linking that goal to a squeaky clean database is doomed to failure.

This whole thing needs to be re-engineered.

So instead of correcting the inaccurate profiles you'd preferr to integrate them into the system.
That's not exactly what I would call "According to the rules".

When you say that

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Profiles would ONLY include the "Credited as" name as it appears in the actual film credit

How do you want to acchieve this?
If I remember this correctly, one of the problems we have is, that in the most profiles it's not "As credited" but "as taken from third party database"

Quoting goblinsdoitall:

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So instead of correcting the inaccurate profiles you'd preferr to integrate them into the system.
That's not exactly what I would call "According to the rules".

Nice complete distortion of what I said.

You completely ignored this in my earlier post:

Quoting Hal9g:

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The fix to this problem is not to fix the credits in the database (although that does need to be done and is a good thing).

But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good mudslinging!

Quoting goblinsdoitall:

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When you say that

Quote:
Profiles would ONLY include the "Credited as" name as it appears in the actual film credit

How do you want to acchieve this?
If I remember this correctly, one of the problems we have is, that in the most profiles it's not "As credited" but "as taken from third party database"

Uhhhhhh, maybe one profile at a time by those who own that DVD.  It will take years and will never actually be complete, but it wll get better over time.

The point is that we wouldn't have to wait for that or rely on it to get a linking system that works.

Quoting hal9g:

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Nice complete distortion of what I said.

You completely ignored this in my earlier post:
(...)
But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good mudslinging!

I never intended to be in a mudslinging match, but realize that I'm probably into one.

If I misunderstood your point, I'm sorry about that
But I'm no native speaker and sometimes misinterpret something. That's no excuse just an explanation.

The thing is I realized that the selfhealing process of this database will never start of it's own accord. So how can improvement be achieved?
You don't like Skip's idea, because it bends the rules to the point of breaking them. Accepted
You didn't even comment on the idea of a reference profile, at least not in this thread. OK
We had your idea of re-engineering the whole system not a year ago. You know what happened: third party material flooded in and couldn't be sorted out because of the mass of new contributions. So this won't work either.

Now I come back to Skip's idea and why I like it
Healing sometimes hurts. And this cure definitely hurts like hell, because of the inherent flaws. But if Skip gets legitimated to start a consistency rollup and this spreads through the community it really might start the selfhealing process. Come to think of it, it probably already did, because there are more and more profile updates coming in where explicitly third party material gets thrown out.

So maybe we really should stop discussing and go to work.
Make Skip's idea dispensable, improve the database yourself!

Maybe a bit too melodramatic, but I really believe it could work this way.
Or can you think of anybody who wants to be in a contribution discussion with Skip if he's "on a mission from Rules"? I don't

Quoting GSyren:

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In my view, the problem is not related to how great the chance is that credits are different. I'm sure that Skip's quest would give us a more accurate database, even if some minor discrepancies would creep in.

The problem is that he is bending the rules to get there. And bending the rules is not a good idea, especially when you at the same time advocate that others should follow them religiously.

You are dead wrong, Gunnar. There is nothing in the Rules that supports your theory. When you are going to make a comment at least do so factually. I OWN the movie, I am using the film credits. You can say that you have a different interpretation than I, but that does not make yours correct and mine not, it makes them different. You have voiced your opinion, and I have mine and you aren't going toi change mine, I have a larger interest in mind, a correct and consistent database for ALL.

The difference is that I am actively trying to correct a problem while you are sitting back and wringing your hands. I hope that the changes will in the long run be very different from what the early returns are indicating.

Skip

Well, let's see you wiggle around this one, Skip.

Quoting the Contribution Rules:

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The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.

and

Quoting the Contribution Rules:

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...so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible.