Quoting VibroCount:

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Quoting Rifter:

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Quoting bob9000:

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Just go away ascended, with 0 votes cast and a pathetic 9 contributions you add nothing of worth to the community or this forum. You are a bad person.

Yeah, Ascended, just go away.  Nobody wants to hear your partisan BS anymore.

This is the sort of garbage argument I warned against weeks ago.

Look at my stats: 9 votes, no contributions. I have stated why. I make hundreds of contribution at IVS, I choose not to (right now) for what I believe are reasonable criteria. This stupid argument Bob & John put forth means I'm less important than A_S. Yet, I'm listened to because what I say makes sense, which ought to be the only criterion for accepting an argument, not on the strength of votes or contributions.

Bad argument. Bad, bad argument. The evil turn returns.

Argue the statements made, not the "worth" of the person making the statements.

Then you missed the point of the posts to Ascended.  He is a jerk, and does nothing but spread a lot of crap in here that EVERYBODY is tired of hearing.  That's all he's done since the day he waltzed in here. 

I don't know how many profiles he's posted, nor do I care.  You participate in good faith as much as you're able, he doesn't.  He's a one trick pony who just comes in here to run his mouth about BluRay and that's all.

Of course, if you want to lump yourself in with him, that's up to you.  But I certainly don't, and I don't think anybody else does either.

Quoting graymadder:

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I have an idea and would like to run a poll without  "running a forum poll".

List 2-5 good things about Blu-ray and 3-5 bad things. Same for HD-DVD. But equally list for both, don't do 5 for hd-dvd and only 2 blu-ray.

For HD DVD:
1.  Ascended doesn't like it
2.  I don't like Sony
3.  Cost of ownership is less

Sorry, can't think of any reasons to go with Blu Ray, but I have three against it.

1.  Ascended likes it
2.  Sony makes it.
3.  Costs too much.

Quoting Rifter:

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Quoting graymadder:

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I have an idea and would like to run a poll without  "running a forum poll".

List 2-5 good things about Blu-ray and 3-5 bad things. Same for HD-DVD. But equally list for both, don't do 5 for hd-dvd and only 2 blu-ray.

For HD DVD:
1.  Ascended doesn't like it
2.  I don't like Sony
3.  Cost of ownership is less

Sorry, can't think of any reasons to go with Blu Ray, but I have three against it.

1.  Ascended likes it
2.  Sony makes it.
3.  Costs too much.

Those first 2 are great rational reasons.  Especially when there are several different manufacturers.  I wonder how many people know that Sony gets royalties on every CD/DVD and CD/DVD player sold (just like Blu-ray).  How many people have CD or DVD players made by a manufactuer other than Sony?

Cost of ownership is a different matter.  On the surface, it appears HD DVD has less cost of ownership, but it's not really true (depending on how many titles you buy).

Combo discs cost about $5 more than a Blu-ray title (according to Amazon).  One can get a BD player for under $490 shipped or a HD DVD player on Amazon for $250 (shipped?).  They are both the lowest models for each format.  One is 1080i...the other 1080p.  One has an ethernet port...the other does not.  If you have bought 50 combo disc for the HD DVD player, there is no difference in cost of ownership.  But, HD DVD owners will probably keep buying the combo discs released, so cost of ownership is constantly increasing over Blu-ray at that point.  That is not even adding in the extra costs of those that want BD exclusive titles so badly they have to import from other countries to get them on HD DVD.

Quoting graymadder:

Quote:
I have an idea and would like to run a poll without  "running a forum poll".

List 2-5 good things about Blu-ray and 3-5 bad things. Same for HD-DVD. But equally list for both, don't do 5 for hd-dvd and only 2 blu-ray.

Blu-ray (The Good)
1. Higher bandwidth ceiling than it's competitor
2. More space than it's competitor
3. uses Java instead of Javascripts (more powerful)
4. 4 more exclusive movie studios than it's competitor
5. Alot more manufacturer support than it's competitor

Blu-ray (The Bad)
1. Higher priced than it's competitor
2. Takes longer to implement changes over so many manufacturers
3. Sony haters believe Sony created Blu-ray by itself therefore refuse to buy Blu-ray unless they have no choice.


HD DVD (The Good)
1. Player costs are lower than it's competitor
2. One manufacturer can implement changes faster than many
3. DVD and HD DVD on one side
4. Currently region free
5. Warner has given them TrueHD tracks

HD DVD (The Bad)
1. Has about 33% less bandwidth than it's competitor
2. Has about 66% less space than it's competitor
3. Can't technically offer something its competitor can't

Fox has announced titles for Japan.  It appears Fox has finalized the implementation of BD+.

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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Quoting graymadder:

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I have an idea and would like to run a poll without  "running a forum poll".

List 2-5 good things about Blu-ray and 3-5 bad things. Same for HD-DVD. But equally list for both, don't do 5 for hd-dvd and only 2 blu-ray.

Blu-ray (The Good)
1. Higher bandwidth ceiling than it's competitor
2. More space than it's competitor
3. uses Java instead of Javascripts (more powerful)
4. 4 more exclusive movie studios than it's competitor
5. Alot more manufacturer support than it's competitor

Blu-ray (The Bad)
1. Higher priced than it's competitor
2. Takes longer to implement changes over so many manufacturers
3. Sony haters believe Sony created Blu-ray by itself therefore refuse to buy Blu-ray unless they have no choice.


HD DVD (The Good)
1. Player costs are lower than it's competitor
2. One manufacturer can implement changes faster than many
3. DVD and HD DVD on one side
4. Currently region free
5. Warner has given them TrueHD tracks

HD DVD (The Bad)
1. Has about 33% less bandwidth than it's competitor
2. Has about 66% less space than it's competitor
3. Can't technically offer something its competitor can't

Let's just look at the "good" reasons to buy BD.
1. Meaningless.  Both formats have enough bandwidth for their needs and then some.
2. Meaningless.  Both formats have more than enough space if used properly.
3. Meaningless.  Both get the job done and the user doesn't care one way or the other.
4. Total titles is what counts, not number of studios.
5. With all that manufacturing power, you'd think it would be cheaper, but it ain't.

And the 'good' reasons for HD.
1. Less expensive is good.  Customers PREFER less expensive.
2. Only one manufacturer, but they're ahead of the curve and reducing prices.
3. MORE COMPATIBLE with current DVD format.
4. Region free.  Can't ask for more than that!
5. Better sound than BD by any standard.

From a strictly neutral point of view, all that extra space (and bandwidth) is useless on BD.  Why pay more for a product with all that extra space and its not being used?  BD still has not overcome all the bad press it got early on, and for good reason; nor has it solved all the problems it had content-wise early on.  People don't forget that sort of thing.

The biggest factor though, in my opinion, is that HD DVD is just more compatible with the current DVD standard, and people are more likely to buy for that reason than any other.  The bigger the collection, the more likely they will steer away from BD and toward HD.

It's all moot anyway.  High Definition discs and players are still only a tiny fraction of the market - less than 5% last I heard - and it has taken them two years to get to that point.  Regular DVDs saturated the market lightning fast as a format because all you needed was a player.  To do High Def right, you need a widescreen TV that is set up for High Def, a High Def player, and some expensive cables at a minimum.  To get full blown 1080p High Def you can easily spent several thousand dollars, and not even have bought a single disc. The average user doesn't have that kind of scratch to throw around, particularly if they have already spent thousands building a DVD collection over many years.

Until ALL TV stations are broadcasting in HD 24/7, many people won't buy an HD ready TV.  That will keep the HD formats restricted to a small percentage of those technogeeks that ALWAYS jump on the new technology.  And, if one format doesn't support the current standard as well as consumers feel it should, they won't be buying that at all.  They simply won't invalidate years of purchases to get the latest disc format.

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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HD DVD          PQ  SQ  TOTAL                Blu-ray    PQ      SQ  TOTAL

HighDef        3.97  3.67  3.82                HighDef    3.98    3.85    3.92
HTSpot        4.02  3.87  3.94                  HTSpot  4.02    4.25  4.13
DVDTalk        3.69  3.51  3.60                  DVDTalk  3.63    3.68  3.66
HTForum      4.15  3.82  3.99                HTForum    4.27    4.09  4.18
UpDisc          4.04  3.86  3.95                UpDisc      4.04    4.15  4.09

Totals          3.92  3.71  3.82                  Totals      3.93    3.96  3.94

This is including the bad PQ start Blu-ray had.

WTF? 

Why do you continually post streams of meaningless numbers without any explanation or context? 

Quoting Battling Butler:

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Here are some relevant numbers:


Amazon sales rank as of 6-05-07:

Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD Player: Amazon.com Sales Rank: #43 in Electronics

You missed the best number.  It's #1 in DVD Players.