Quote:
Quoting cmaeditor:

Quote:
NO CONSUMER TV on the market today will display a true 1080p/24 frame signal. Every CONSUMER TV out there takes the 24p signal and adds pulldown to get a 60p it. It's a fact, albeit one that the HD gurus don't mention. There is no way to display a 24p image on any HD monitor and not have a strobing image being displayed. Our eyes see faster than that and the strobing is hard to look at and will give you a headache. I have been on Shoots using a Panavision Genesis HD camera that shoots 24p, and the only monitors that displayed the true 24p signal were expensive PROFESSIONAL STUDIO monitors. and there was a noticeable strobing of the image that you could see.

I don't know where you get your information from, but you are wrong.  Here is a list of products that can display a 1080p/24 signal.

LIST SNIPPED BY cmaeditor

Plus, a lot of older Pioneer Elite HDTV do accept 1080i/24Hz signal (which the PS3 can output) and use 3:3 pulldown, which allows a judder free 24fps signal to be increased to a very smooth 72HZ judder free image (which is the purpose of not using 3:2 pulldown).

Look it up.

Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

Quote:
Quoting cmaeditor:

Quote:
NO CONSUMER TV on the market today will display a true 1080p/24 frame signal. Every CONSUMER TV out there takes the 24p signal and adds pulldown to get a 60p it. It's a fact, albeit one that the HD gurus don't mention. There is no way to display a 24p image on any HD monitor and not have a strobing image being displayed. Our eyes see faster than that and the strobing is hard to look at and will give you a headache. I have been on Shoots using a Panavision Genesis HD camera that shoots 24p, and the only monitors that displayed the true 24p signal were expensive PROFESSIONAL STUDIO monitors. and there was a noticeable strobing of the image that you could see.

I don't know where you get your information from, but you are wrong.  Here is a list of products that can display a 1080p/24 signal.

LIST SNIPPED BY cmaeditor

Plus, a lot of older Pioneer Elite HDTV do accept 1080i/24Hz signal (which the PS3 can output) and use 3:3 pulldown, which allows a judder free 24fps signal to be increased to a very smooth 72HZ judder free image (which is the purpose of not using 3:2 pulldown).

Look it up.

Where I get my info? I work in the Entertainment industry as an editor. Everyone of those TVs you list may accept a 24p signal, but they do not display it as 24 frames. They all process the signal to some higher frame rate to display it smoothly to our eyes, be it 96p, 72p, 60p, 48p or even 60i. 48p has a slight flicker to it and your frame rate has to get around 60 on a progressive monitor to not be able to perceive a flicker. That is the TRUTH. Talk to any person who works in the broadcast and/or entertainment industry and you will hear the same thing.

Quote:
Quoting cmaeditor:

Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

Quote:
Quoting cmaeditor:

Quote:
NO CONSUMER TV on the market today will display a true 1080p/24 frame signal. Every CONSUMER TV out there takes the 24p signal and adds pulldown to get a 60p it. It's a fact, albeit one that the HD gurus don't mention. There is no way to display a 24p image on any HD monitor and not have a strobing image being displayed. Our eyes see faster than that and the strobing is hard to look at and will give you a headache. I have been on Shoots using a Panavision Genesis HD camera that shoots 24p, and the only monitors that displayed the true 24p signal were expensive PROFESSIONAL STUDIO monitors. and there was a noticeable strobing of the image that you could see.

I don't know where you get your information from, but you are wrong.  Here is a list of products that can display a 1080p/24 signal.

LIST SNIPPED BY cmaeditor

Plus, a lot of older Pioneer Elite HDTV do accept 1080i/24Hz signal (which the PS3 can output) and use 3:3 pulldown, which allows a judder free 24fps signal to be increased to a very smooth 72HZ judder free image (which is the purpose of not using 3:2 pulldown).

Look it up.

Where I get my info? I work in the Entertainment industry as an editor. Everyone of those TVs you list may accept a 24p signal, but they do not display it as 24 frames. They all process the signal to some higher frame rate to display it smoothly to our eyes, be it 96p, 72p, 60p, 48p or even 60i. 48p has a slight flicker to it and your frame rate has to get around 60 on a progressive monitor to not be able to perceive a flicker. That is the TRUTH. Talk to any person who works in the broadcast and/or entertainment industry and you will hear the same thing.

It would make no sense for you to make a statement like that about 24fps.  Anyone in the industry should automatically know the benefits of a 24fps signal.  That would be the only reason to bring up 60Hz in the first place.

The purpose of a 24Hz signal is for judder free images when watching most film presentations and my PS3 can output at 1080p/24Hz (which I can take full advantage of).  So, nice try.

Quote:
PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSED THE FRAME RATE WITH THE SIGNAL HERTZ, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING. fps does not equal Hz

Apparently you know nothing about video signals at all. The reason we have 30i (actually 29.97 frame rate) SDTV signals is that our electrical system cycles at 60Hz (actually 59.94Hz, but we round up) an SD image is made up of 60 interlaced fields which constitute half of a full frame each, therefore the refresh rate of a SDTV is 60hz. To convert material whose native frame rate is 24fps to 30i 3:2 pulldown is introduced. In an interlaced signal that creates frames every so often that are composed of 2 fields from different 24fps frames. In a progressive signal 3:2 pulldown is used as well, but instead of fields, full frames are duplicated. The reason 24fps material isn't shown at 24fps on any TV (HD or SD) is that our eyes would perceive a flicker and extended viewing of that would give us a headache. Movies in the theatre are projected at 24fps, but the shutter of the projector is running at 48fps, we don't notice it, but what we are actually seeing on the screen is a 24fps image refreshed 48 times a second.

Yes your PS3 may send out a 24fps signal, but here is what is happening in each of your TVs you listed that you own.

1080p/ 60Hz ---- The 24fps signal is processed and displayed as a 60fps Progressive image.
480p/ 60Hz  ---- Since this display is nothing more than a SDTV that can display a progrssive signal you are seeing a 30p signal
1080/ 96Hz --- The 24fps material is processed and displayed most likely (unless i know the make and model #, i can only guess) either as a 60p image or a 96p (each frame of the 24fps material duplicated 4 times 24x4=96)

Quote:
Every CONSUMER TV out there takes the 24p signal and adds pulldown to get a 60p it. It's a fact, albeit one that the HD gurus don't mention.

Quote:
or a 96p (each frame of the 24fps material duplicated 4 times 24x4=96)

Quote:
Thanks for the post, minimoke.  You are absolutely correct.

Now, for those of you wanting the PS3's architecture explained...

I think I have finally come across an explanation of the TRUE abilities of the PS3 and why it is so much better than the Xbox 360.  Here's a hint...It not really about the graphics card.  The difference in the graphics cards appears to be minimal at best.

PS3 rendering architecture explained...

Quote:
"The PS3 rendering architecture is designed to be used like this:

The PPE functions as a controller for the entire system.

The SPEs function as the heavy lifters for game logic, physics, and dynamic vertex work. They also are used for some pixel work.

The RSX functions as the main pixel painter, but it is also used for static geometry.

A PS3 engine will start off with the PPE spawning off tasks to the SPEs and acting as the central control point for the engine. Static geometry is put onto the RSX. PPEs start cranking through tasks in parallel, usually setup to double buffer the data they operate on. A SPE will have its code uploaded, then it starts a DMA fetch for its initial data into to one half its local memory, and then it starts ping ponging back and forth: work through one half the local memory while the second half is being DMAed in, then swap. Ideally you have it setup so that you are effectively hiding almost all of your data loading latencies with the double buffer setup and chaining SPEs together where you do animation, deformation, physics, transformation, lighting all going on in parallel.

The heavy vertex work being done, that data is then sent off to the RSX to be rasterized along with the resident static vertex data. So in effect the PS3's Cell RSX combo is one giant unified rendering system. Depending on the nature of your game, your division of labor between the RSX and Cell will be different. It is entirely possible to do all vertex work on Cell or none. And the same for pixel painting.

What the design of the PS3's rendering architecture brings to developers is the unification of your physics, collision, dynamics, and geometry. On systems like desktop pcs or the 360 you have a division between your geometric data and collision/physics data with each of them sitting in GPU and CPU space respectively. The latest Factor 5 interview talks in general about this design of the PS3 and the Lair engine.

The RSX does exactly what it was designed to do, have the pixel painting power to handle 1080p output. The extra vertex power is a nice addition. The RSX in isolation is not very interesting to talk about. Or is a comparison to standard desktop graphics cards or the Xenos."