Quoting tweeter:

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Quoting hal9g:

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Regarding people who are doing BD or HD DVD profiles by copying casts from other profiles.  Copying the cast and crew is a shortcut to get the profile built quickly, however, I would fully expect that the contributor owns said BD or HD DVD and would validate those credits against the DVD credits BEFORE actually submitting them.  If not how can they possibly know if they are correct.  They would simply be propagating bad data.

Bad data is being propagated.  I've double dipped on a number of high def discs and found errors in the HD/BD profile that were fixed in the DVD profile after the HD/BD profile was released.  This showed me that profiles were being propagated without being reviewed.

And i've corrected DVD and HD/BD profiles simultaneously because the same error was found in both.

Not a big surprise.  It is too easy to just copy and not bother to validate.

Quoting GSyren:

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Skip,

While I appreciate your good intentions, I think that some of us are a little apprehensive about letting good intentions replace the rules. That's a very slippery slope.

If it really improves the database to ignore the rules for a limited time, then ignore the rules.

Probably another way with not so much work for Skip, but the inherent flaw that not necessarily all profiles get updated is .... tatataaaaa ... A REFERENCE PROFILE ... for each movie in the database. This should list only Cast and Crew since the rest of a profile might vary from release to release.
"Improvements" of this reference profile should only be allowed by hard proof (screenshot) even on the individual releases. This way we might really get consistency into the database

Quoting m.cellophane:

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It has been a frequent practice for HD DVD and BD profiles to add cast and crew while referencing the UPC of an SD profile as the source. They get accepted as such.

Copying the cast and crew list from one profile to another is definitely an accepted method to populate a profile for an upcoming release. But once released the lists should be verified after copying IMO.

By the way I do welcome anyone from any locality to improve profiles from different localities as long as they act sensible and understand that in some cases the rules are open for interpretation. Some examples:

Some localities user base may accept "Helena//Bonham Carter" without further documentation, while others may want to see a birth certificate for anything but "Helena/Bonham/Carter". Fact is that there is no default parsing given by the rules.

Some people want to always enter "Francois" if a credit says "FRANCOIS", while other people acknowledge that "C" is the capital letter not only of "c" but of "ç" as well and do prefer "François" in most cases. Same goes for the accents.

Some people think that a credit "dubbing mixer" may not be entered to the database at all, others know that it may be the British translation of "sound re-recording mixer" and enter it as any other foreign language crew role.

Those examples have all been discussed in the forum as well and it has been shown that more than one way is allowed by the rules. Different locality users might tend to consent to a different solution though. In those cases overwriting valid data with also valid data from another locality should be clearly declined.

Rh:

I don't care about what people WANT to do with Francois, that is adding data that does NOT exist, we have a procedure to allow for François, once the database is correct they can deal with that. The Rules say exactly, that does not mean insert non-existent data. If it's there I will enter it, if it is NOT then it is not. As for your dubbing mixer, that is not allowed in the Rules PERIOD.

I suggest that instead of worrying about ME, then as I said to Gunnar, you pick up the torch and start making sure that your data is accurate.

So far, I have seen MISSING data, IMDb data,, not to mention the data which just flat does not conform to the Rules.

With myself owning some 3000+ titles I calculate i can deal with 30-50,000 titles out 330,000+, I can use a lot of help and welcomes, this is not something I WANT to do, but SOMEBODY has to do and if it  is me...so be it. Either help or get out of the way...

BTW Rho all the comments both you and Gunnar have voiced only show me that you and Gunnar are not interested in accuracy in the database or in making sure that the Rules are followed. From what I have seen so far, in very early work, if you were concerned with accuracy and the Rules and the rules I would not see what I am seeing. I will grant this to you at least some of that data was imported from Intervocative, but even so, the Rules had been around for TWO years prior to the demise of Intervocative and that data is STILL wrong???? I think James' guess at 5% looks to be just about right.

Un like you I don't look for ways around the Rules and don't deal with culture, my culture is what is what I SEE On the Screen, nothing more, nothing less. I have said this many times to the poitn that i am tired of saying, not to mention to put it bluntly don't try and tell ME what the Rules mean, I KNOW what they mean beyond ANY shadow of all the doubt you gentlemen have tried to cast on them. So, help me or stand aside.

Skip

Quoting tweeter:

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Bad data is being propagated.  I've double dipped on a number of high def discs and found errors in the HD/BD profile that were fixed in the DVD profile after the HD/BD profile was released.  This showed me that profiles were being propagated without being reviewed.

Ok, that applies to that situation, if the first profile contains bad data. But if Cast and Crew credits in the first profile were taken from film credits (as Skip swears he does all the times), there is no "bad data propagated". The only problems could come from different interpretations of the rules (e.g. on parsing) or from film credits being different in different editions/localities, but I believe that would be a rare event in Hollywood movies and those differences could be corrected afterwards anyway. All things considered, I guess that might bring more good than harm, if the source profile is good and if a pinch of salt is used, for instance correcting only obvious errors, like profiles that are a verbatim copy from IMDb but different from film credits.

Quoting GSyren:

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Quoting Skip:

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Gunnar show me where that is in the Rules

It's in the very first line under Credits: Take Crew Credits from the film credits only
Unless you watch the DVD in question you cannot be certain that the credits are the same as the ones you are entering.

For someone who is fond of saying "Just follow the rules", you have an uncanny way of disregarding them when you feel it iis merited in order to improve the database.

Gunnar:

You clearly have not paid attention to everything I have said.

Skip

Quoting GSyren:

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Quoting Skip:

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Gunnar show me where that is in the Rules

It's in the very first line under Credits: Take Crew Credits from the film credits only
Unless you watch the DVD in question you cannot be certain that the credits are the same as the ones you are entering.

For someone who is fond of saying "Just follow the rules", you have an uncanny way of disregarding them when you feel it iis merited in order to improve the database.

Thanks, Gunnar.

I have quoted that at least twice above, but as usual Skip ignores everything that he does not want to hear.  Especially if it is coming from me!