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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Creating my own online movie database |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
If the data is on the cloud, you don't need to DO A THING. The data is updated automatically in the cloud server without you ever knowing it. THAT'S PROGRESS.
The day DVD Profiler works that way is the day I'll stop using it. I don't want it to update any of my data behind my back.
---------------
I'm guessing the reason you don't want automatic updates is that you fear that BAD DATA may come through, am I right? I'm the same way. The cause of that is, again, there are nowhere nearly enough contributors to create timely, swift, and most importantly, reliable updates and corrections to the database. That's why every time you update disc info, you are shown detailed info on what was updated and what was added, as if to reassure you, but it only adds to the cumbersome nature of the program. My point is that your thinking has nothing to do with cloud. It has to do with lack of contributors and lack of good data. As I said, to get more contributors and more customers, you need attractive features in the program. It won't get as many contributors as IMDb has, but at least you try to get more. But it seems this program is losing customers steadily. Not necessarily. Some people do not want all the data that is available, and makes very little use of the online DB. Take a look at Yves comments about the online DB, he is very glad that he has the control of doing things the way he wants. The whole idea of this program, is 1. if you want to rely on everybody else, without contributing, you are welcome to do so 2. If you are happy with the online DB and want to contribute, you can do that 3. If you want the online DB as a starting point, just to make the final mods in your personal DB, you can also do that. 4. If you do not want anypart of the Online DB, and want all the information yourself, you can also do that. 5. If you want to rely on a third party DB (as long as you don't contribute that information) you can also do that. While yo state that everything is online, and "requires" an online component, is almost false once the software is installed (short of program updates itself). I can take my laptop on an extended camping trip, to places that do not have an internet connection at all, and still be able to work on "MY" personal DB. If an online DB is all that you desire, then create it. No body is stopping you from creating your own program, and offer it for sale or free to other people. You may find that you may create a popular program that people will enjoy. As long as it relies in an online or cloud based system, that software will always be different than DVD profiler, Not better or worse, just different. Now mind you, I do not advocate for stagnation, and there are components that need updating and or changing, I do not want to give up my local copy of my DB, that I can manipulate to my whim, without the "automatic" effects of a cloud based system. |
| | Registered: August 7, 2007 | | Posts: 102 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
0 contributions in 7 years. just another useless member, complaining about not enough contributors, In my opinion you and your database can fade back into oblivion.
Where does it say in the product EULA that I have to contribute? All I had to do was PAY for the software, and that I did. DVDP's database relies on VOLUNTEERS. Do you know what that word means? It means I'm not required to contribute. I never contributed to IMDb and wiki either, and they are doing pretty well, aren't they? The point REMAINS that even if every single DVDP member and their family, relatives, pets, gold fish, etc., ALL contribute, this product is still never ever going to keep up with the breadth and depth of IMDb. You just need to face that fact.
1. You don't have to contribute and you also do not have to particpate in the forums. And you have gotten more than what you paid for 7 years ago.
2. Volunteers - people who give their time and effort without expecting anything for it. Taker - a person who always wants more without putting any effort into it.
3. I contribute to both IMDB and Wiki.
4. The point is this program and IMDB are 2 very different types of data programs.
5. The fact is, your database page is lacking. It actually looks like something from the DOS era. So I'm a "taker" now? In addition to the $30 I paid for DVDP desktop, I also bought both iOS and Android versions just last year. And I felt they were woefully insufficient for the reasons I have already delineated in great clarity. Another reason I don't contribute is that I'm not a fan of the program, simple as that. I have hardly used the program in any meaningful way. I've spent an extraordinary amount of time entering data with its cumbersome interface, and the program has hardly benefited me. So one day I said that's it for DVDP, time to look elsewhere. Take a look at some mobile sites like this one. They all have the bare and slim look to accommodate the simpler mobile display. That's the reason I give my site the bare look. As I already said, I intend to use it anywhere anytime, so I obviously have to design it for mobile devices. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
I'm guessing the reason you don't want automatic updates is that you fear that BAD DATA may come through, am I right? I'm the same way. The cause of that is, again, there are nowhere nearly enough contributors to create timely, swift, and most importantly, reliable updates and corrections to the database. The cause of that varies, but even IMDB has loads of errors, so if I can't trust what most people consider the most authoritative source for movie information, why should I trust any other online source? I'm satisfied to keep my database local with the option of uploading it if desired. Having said that, I would love for Invelos to update the way I view and manage my uploaded data. --------------- |
| | Registered: August 7, 2007 | | Posts: 102 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
If the data is on the cloud, you don't need to DO A THING. The data is updated automatically in the cloud server without you ever knowing it. THAT'S PROGRESS.
The day DVD Profiler works that way is the day I'll stop using it. I don't want it to update any of my data behind my back.
---------------
I'm guessing the reason you don't want automatic updates is that you fear that BAD DATA may come through, am I right? I'm the same way. The cause of that is, again, there are nowhere nearly enough contributors to create timely, swift, and most importantly, reliable updates and corrections to the database. That's why every time you update disc info, you are shown detailed info on what was updated and what was added, as if to reassure you, but it only adds to the cumbersome nature of the program. My point is that your thinking has nothing to do with cloud. It has to do with lack of contributors and lack of good data. As I said, to get more contributors and more customers, you need attractive features in the program. It won't get as many contributors as IMDb has, but at least you try to get more. But it seems this program is losing customers steadily.
Not necessarily. Some people do not want all the data that is available, and makes very little use of the online DB. Take a look at Yves comments about the online DB, he is very glad that he has the control of doing things the way he wants.
The whole idea of this program, is
1. if you want to rely on everybody else, without contributing, you are welcome to do so
2. If you are happy with the online DB and want to contribute, you can do that
3. If you want the online DB as a starting point, just to make the final mods in your personal DB, you can also do that.
4. If you do not want anypart of the Online DB, and want all the information yourself, you can also do that.
5. If you want to rely on a third party DB (as long as you don't contribute that information) you can also do that.
While yo state that everything is online, and "requires" an online component, is almost false once the software is installed (short of program updates itself). I can take my laptop on an extended camping trip, to places that do not have an internet connection at all, and still be able to work on "MY" personal DB.
If an online DB is all that you desire, then create it. No body is stopping you from creating your own program, and offer it for sale or free to other people. You may find that you may create a popular program that people will enjoy. As long as it relies in an online or cloud based system, that software will always be different than DVD profiler, Not better or worse, just different.
Now mind you, I do not advocate for stagnation, and there are components that need updating and or changing, I do not want to give up my local copy of my DB, that I can manipulate to my whim, without the "automatic" effects of a cloud based system. To your first point, if you must have "personalized" data entry, it could still be done in a cloud environment. Instead of making your personalized entries in your local DB, you make them on your cloud DB. It would be just a change of location, but the same thing would be achieved. To your second point, cloud applications can have offline capabilities too. You take the popular Evernote, for instance. You can enter data either online or offline. While you are online, your entries will sync instantly with the cloud. While you are offline, you can still make entries, but they won't sync until you go back online. And of course, once the entries are sync'ed, they are instantly visible in all your devices, unlike DVDP where you need to manually transfer your DB to another device. |
| | Registered: August 7, 2007 | | Posts: 102 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
I'm guessing the reason you don't want automatic updates is that you fear that BAD DATA may come through, am I right? I'm the same way. The cause of that is, again, there are nowhere nearly enough contributors to create timely, swift, and most importantly, reliable updates and corrections to the database.
The cause of that varies, but even IMDB has loads of errors, so if I can't trust what most people consider the most authoritative source for movie information, why should I trust any other online source?
I'm satisfied to keep my database local with the option of uploading it if desired. Having said that, I would love for Invelos to update the way I view and manage my uploaded data.
--------------- Regarding the reliability of DVDP contributors vs. the reliability of IMDb contributors, I remember having addressed this issue 2 years ago here. Basically, it's quantity vs. quality. In this case, quantity wins. Or more preciously, a very high number of less reliable data would often excel over a much lower number of more reliable data. Yes, DVDP's database is handled by people who are more serious about managing a database than IMDb users. But there are FAR FAR fewer people doing this for DVDP than the people who do it for IMDb. If there are 10,000 people posting entries to a movie on IMDb, the chances are VERY good that we end up with very few errors -- even if 1000 or 3000 of those 10000 people are idiots who post entries that are way off. This is because the sheer number of times this movie is being looked at and worked on would make it highly likely that a very high percentage of errors would be corrected when all is said and done, and probably in a much shorter time than it would take for DVDP contributors to reach the same result. What good is it to have top notch contributors when you have to wait days, weeks, or months for the next contributor to come by? At IMDb, it would probably take mere seconds for the next contributor to show up. I think this is the reason why I rarely see errors in the IMDb's cast and crew. I may see *incomplete* cast and crew. But I rarely see outright errors. One outright error I notice is the name of the actress who plays Josef K's cousin in Orson Welles' "The Trial". IMDb has her name as Naydra Shore, when on-screen credits show "Maydra Shore" as the name. I have a copy of the movie script and it also shows "Maydra Shore". This shows how obscure an entry has to be to produce an outright error. As an analogy, people used to say speech recognition and handwriting recognition couldn't be done. They said if we humans couldn't even recognize somebody's handwriting or speech half the time ourselves, then how could a computer? It turns out a computer has one capability humans don't have: the ability to accept and process a ginormous amount of data. Let's say we want a computer to recognize the handwriting of the letter "L". What do we do? We feed thousands and thousands of handwriting samples of the "L" into the computer. Some people write the "L" with a loop, some L's are slanted left and some right, some L's are just a vertical line, some are printed, etc. etc., plus every other conceivable way of writing an L. We feed all these into the computer, and with a good algorithm, it CAN determine if ANY piece of handwriting is an L or not with a VERY HIGH degree of certainly. I think anyone who has used a smart device's handwriting feature would notice this. Plus, the growing speed of computer processors (CPUs) over the years have helped to make this goal a reality. So that is why the SHEER number of samples, such as those possible on IMDb, *CAN* often transcend themselves into something previous thought not possible. To look at it in extreme closeup: let's say IMDb user #1 posts in the quote section that Bogart says "Play it again, Sam" in the movie "Casablanca." User #2 amends it with "Play it again." User #3 thinks, no, he does say "Play it again, Sam". User #4 posts "Play it, Sam." And so on and so forth. Now what is the probablity that by the 10,000 poster, that we would have the correct quote posted? Very high. | | | | Last edited: by movie_madness |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | @movie_madness
I am trying to figure out what you are trying to accomplish here.
Are you trying to convince people to move away from DVDP?, If so don't you think that this is not the proper place to do it.
Are you trying to get help in programming this idea of yours? Are you looking for ideas? Please help me understand here.
I work for a company that went from a thick platform to a thin platform. It has not worked out so well. What was really needed was somewhere in between.
What you are proposing is to go from a thick (local based) system, to a thin (cloud based, accessed through a web browser).
What people are telling you, is they do not want to abandon the local component, and want the cloud (or online) aspect as a secondary. You are trying to emphasize the complete opposite. You want a primarily online component with a local option.
I just do not feel, that having access to my collection online and editable 24 hours a day is of any benefit to me. I do not feel that online primary is the way to go for me.
I have an android device, I only use it whil I shop, to make sure I don't buy something I already have. I was able to do this before, bu viewing my online collection. I also have phpdvdprofiler, which I update, so friends can see my collection (they do not need to edit)
I think that there are many things that need to be addressed with DVDP, and the online editing is not very high on that list. | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 17, 2007 | | Posts: 853 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
0 contributions in 7 years. just another useless member, complaining about not enough contributors, In my opinion you and your database can fade back into oblivion.
Where does it say in the product EULA that I have to contribute? All I had to do was PAY for the software, and that I did. DVDP's database relies on VOLUNTEERS. Do you know what that word means? It means I'm not required to contribute. I never contributed to IMDb and wiki either, and they are doing pretty well, aren't they? The point REMAINS that even if every single DVDP member and their family, relatives, pets, gold fish, etc., ALL contribute, this product is still never ever going to keep up with the breadth and depth of IMDb. You just need to face that fact. The reason you should be contributing is it is one of the very things you are complaining about. In other words you are part of the problem. |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: So I'm a "taker" now? In addition to the $30 I paid for DVDP desktop, I also bought both iOS and Android versions just last year. And I felt they were woefully insufficient for the reasons I have already delineated in great clarity. Another reason I don't contribute is that I'm not a fan of the program, simple as that. I have hardly used the program in any meaningful way. I've spent an extraordinary amount of time entering data with its cumbersome interface, and the program has hardly benefited me. So one day I said that's it for DVDP, time to look elsewhere. not a fan of the program, but yet you made your initial purchase of the desktop version. And then in a stroke of genius purchased iOS and Android version, even though you were already not fan and not really using the program.  and now you want to be our savior and lead us to a new promise land. Thanks, I'll wander the desert on my own. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 17, 2007 | | Posts: 853 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to agree with everyone here. While DVDProfiler has many issues it is still better than other options. Would I like to see further updates? Absolutely. But Ken is a single person company, he either is incapable or unable of producing more updates than he does. The real reason people no longer post in the program request area is 99% are shut down by other users before anything can be done with them. Most of the requests I see posted are answered by another user with there is a work around for that. That is not Ken, it is other users. Are there problems in the forums? Yes. Is Ken mostly absent now days? Yes. But we still have a mostly better program than others offer. For you sir, I have one thing to say. Be glad I am not Ken. I would refund your money and kick you out of the DVDP gang as you obviously are not happy here and would be in better spirits somewhere else. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
TheMadMartian, don't you find your statement oxymoronic: "I want a local copy of my database that I can take with me anywhere I go." If you want something anywhere you go, CLOUD is the thing. I don't see how you are going to bring a PC software anywhere you go without hauling your PC around everywhere you go. Seriously? I had a copy of my local database on my iPhone and currently have it on my iPad so, no, I do not find my statement oxymoronic. Not only do I have my collection everywhere I go, I don't need a connection nor do I have to rely on somebody else maintaining the cloud. As for you not seeing how I am going to bring PC software anywhere I go without hauling my PC around everywhere I go, well, that doesn't even make any sense. First, Profiler is on my laptop. While I don't, I can take that everywhere I go. Second, Profiler is also on my Surface Pro. That I do take everywhere I go so, again, your statement doesn't make any sense. Quote:
When you need to update disc info, DVDP has you do a massive global update on ALL discs. Don't you know how last century that is? If the data is on the cloud, you don't need to DO A THING. The data is updated automatically in the cloud server without you ever knowing it. THAT'S PROGRESS. This society is built on progress. Don't you people want to make the program better? First, Profiler doesn't have you do anything. The last time I did a global update was when I switched from Intervocative to invelos. Second, one of the reasons I don't like your cloud ideas is because the data is updated automatically. My database is set up the way I want it, not the way invelos wants it. Automatic updates, for me, isn't progress. It's a step backwards. And finally, I don't need the program to be 'better' as it does exactly what I need it to do. I'm sorry it doesn't do what you want it to do, but your better isn't my better. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: June 1, 2013 |  Posts: 217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
All of you use DVDP to DOWNLOAD disc info with your Internet connection, do you not?
No. Never. Quoting scotthm: Quote:
:
[. I don't want it to update any of my data behind my back.
--------------- Yup. Quoting scotthm: Quote:
even IMDB has loads of errors
I'm satisfied to keep my database local
--------------- Double yup. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | "Disc-cataloguing software is an endangered species to begin with, when more and more people nowadays buy online movies from Vudu, iTunes, and the likes." This is probably the only thing in your post I agree with. Except I don't buy, I stream from Netflix et al. And that's why I will continue to use DVDP until it no longer works because by then I will no longer have any need for it. I have no use for another IMDb clone. If I want IMDb data I go to IMDb directly. They are already in the "cloud" and have been there since 1995 ca. (And on usenet before that.) There was an option to download and compile the entire database already then but I don't know if it still exists. I had the whole of IMDb on my trusted old Atari ST.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
The data is updated automatically in the cloud server without you ever knowing it. THAT'S PROGRESS. In fact not only a few people consider "THE CLOUD" to be a step into the wrong direction. The main reason here being security rsiks (User has to rely on the service-provider to protect his data). Can you even imagine how interesting a CLOUD-server (containing millions of highly confidential documents) is for criminal elements (Crackers) and/or Intelligence Agencies (in many cases these will even be the same)? Here are 3 basic-rules on how to set-up any IT-infrastructure: 1) External Networking: Only if required 2) Internal Networking: Only if needed 3) Local: Whenever possible Or in other words: As long as I can decide which of my personal is publicly available that is completely OK for me. But I will not be part of the strange Microsoft/Apple complex trying to tell me that local data is "Last Century" and Cloud-Computing is "The Next Big Thing". I will rather have my right arm cut off than providing anyone with more personal data than absolutely necessary. I too am using CLOUD services, but mostly for external backups of my (and my customers) local data. And these backups get 2048 Bit encrypted BEFORE I send them. Always remember: If you trust someone with your personal data, you are already betrayed. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting movie_madness: Quote:
Microsoft also secretly offers its industrial-strength SQL Server FOR FREE as well, Secretly?? "industrial-strength"   It's Express version of real SQL. Quote:
the only catch being the 4-gigabyte size limit, which regular folks will never exceed anyway." You don't see max. 25 db connections as a catch? | | | | Last edited: by Kulju |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lewis_Prothero: Quote:
Here are 3 basic-rules on how to set-up any IT-infrastructure:
1) External Networking: Only if required
2) Internal Networking: Only if needed
3) Local: Whenever possible
That might be OK for environments <5 users/workstations but for anything bigger I would go: 1) External Networking: Only if required 2) Internal Networking: Whenever possible 3) Local: Avoid in all cost It's craptastic when users keep their files on their local/external drives instead of central server with regular backups, version control etc. It also doesn't make any sense to buy every user a local printer (just two examples). In home office type of solutions your model work ok, but in "any IT-infrastructure" it really doesn't. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | IMHO when you compare imdb and DVDP databases you compare apples and oranges. Correct me if I'm wrong but the information you cannot get from imdb are at least:
- Title (can varie from theatrical distribution and of course varies between localities.)
- Edition
- Media Type
- Regions
- Run Time (can varie because NTSC/PAL or in different editions)
- Release Date
- Case Type
- SRP
- Rating System
- Rating
- Rating Details
- Video Format (can varie between releases)
- Dimensions
- Features
- Audio Tracks
- Subtitles
- Localized Overview
- Easter Eggs
- Discs info
- Box Set info
- Cover Scans
- All Personal Information
What you can scrape from imdb (if you don't mind about accuracy):
- Original Title
- Production Year
- CoO
- Genres
- Studios
- MC
- Color Format
- Cast & Crew
So as a DVD/Blu-ray collector I take DVDP data over imdb data any day. If I wan't to know more about some movie I just click one button on DVDP and it will open imdb for me. |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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