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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
This is why you're picked on... 
I didn't forget that BD is outselling HD. You missed my point.
The number of 07 blockbusters is about even for Q4 releases...
New HD players are out with retail pricing below $300 and street pricing below that, obviously. You can get into the HD game for around $220 right now if you look for it.
Maybe you're looking at it wrong...YTD and SI numbers will rise for HD DVD also, that's kind of the way sales figures go. If everything plays out no differently than current YTD trends then BD won't increase its lead. They will both grow in unison. Please explain to me how they will grow in unison and Blu-ray will not increase it's lead. Did you miss the part where I said Blu-ray outsells HD DVD 2:1 for the same titles (In other words, 2 HD DVD blockbuster titles add up to 1 Blu-ray blockbuster hit sales wise). That implies that Blu-ray exclusive blockbuster titles will most likely sell TWICE the number of units of HD DVD exclusive blockbuster titles. At the VERY least, it will sell more. Therefore, that means Blu-ray WILL increase their lead. That's why you have to explain how Blu-ray won't increase it's lead.  Quote:
With 30 Paramount titles already in the works for 08 I think an educated guess could be made that the entire number will be higher for the year. That may be true. I just haven't seen any title announcements. Have you seen any? EDIT: Corrected a typo and added one sentence. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I think you forget the Blu-ray sells twice as much as HD DVD titles. That includes hits. Whether you like HD DVD titles over Blu-ray or not, Blu-ray WILL increase it's SI (Since Inception) lead on that premise alone. Plus, the fact that Blu-ray has more Blockbuster titles from this summer than HD DVD. That means an increase in YTD (Year To Date) numbers. Either way you look at it, this does not look good for HD DVD in the 4th quarter (especially with the 40GB PS3 launching in a little while). I think what you are forgetting Asc. is that blockbuster hits are movies the general audience likes. Whether you like it or not box office blockbusters are NOT going to decide a winner. That is done by putting movies people actually want out there. Currently I added the Blu-ray titles I'd like to have to my wish list, but I might do that for HD DVD as well. As I 'said' before the whole BDA marketing should take a look at what is in vaults, and what is comming out, especially with Disney where the Disney Classics go into the vault for seven years! You'd almost think BDA wants to loose. Why, if mr Spielberg supports Blu-ray, are they not releasing titles like Back to the Future, E.T., A.I., J.P.? I indeed think Paramount made a good and sound decision for the company itself; the one where they got US$150 just for 'deciding' to go HD DVD exclusive. | | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pplchamp: Quote:
I think the writer is an idiot. Profile 1.1 is a second video stream and audio streams which the PS3 can do. It also increases the memory, which the PS3 already has.
I don't know where he got the "at least some" bit from. I bet you're right. We'll have to wait and see I guess. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting JP_S: Quote:
I think what you are forgetting Asc. is that blockbuster hits are movies the general audience likes. Whether you like it or not box office blockbusters are NOT going to decide a winner. That is done by putting movies people actually want out there. Remember, the general audience is the target in the end. Catalog titles NOR day & date blockbusters will decide a winner, unless you have a WHOLE lot of day & day blockbusters (4 a month would do it for sure). It is a combination of the two that will decide a winner. HD DVD is more catalog focused. Blu-ray is more day & date release focused. You see the results of those strategies ALL over the world (9:1 Japan, 4:1 Europe, 2:1 US, and hardly any HD DVD sold in Australia to begin with). In the end, this war WILL be determined by sales numbers. We all know where those numbers point to. Quote:
Currently I added the Blu-ray titles I'd like to have to my wish list, but I might do that for HD DVD as well. As I 'said' before the whole BDA marketing should take a look at what is in vaults, and what is comming out, especially with Disney where the Disney Classics go into the vault for seven years!
You'd almost think BDA wants to loose. Why, if mr Spielberg supports Blu-ray, are they not releasing titles like Back to the Future, E.T., A.I., J.P.? I guess you think that there are only a couple of people running the BDA. These companies have WAY more market information at their disposal than you. I'm sure they know what they should and shouldn't release at what time. They have done this a couple times before the current format war. Remember, they are businesses trying to be profitable and grow the business. HD DVD studios seem to be compensated for their releases. They don't care about profit via sales, because they are covered. If you look at the titles released by Universal, their HD DVD sales are in the basement. They have released the most titles for HD DVD to date. That is a terrible business practice. If they are not being compensated, this would be a retarded plan at best. People need to understand how this works. DVD releases are MAKING MONEY. Only day & date releases are breaking even or making money on HD. Therefore, you should NOT expect catalog titles to be released at the same time for Blu-ray. The BDA is about making Blu-ray a viable business for them...not to run HD into non-profitability. I'm surprised you asked the Steven Spielberg question. Were you being serious? If so, the answer is simple. Those titles you mention are not from Blu-ray exclusive studios for 1 (plus Spielberg would need to determine when he wanted them to be released). Those HD DVD exclusive studios that have his content can release them on HD DVD if they released them on Blu-ray as well.  Good ole Spielberg! Quote:
I indeed think Paramount made a good and sound decision for the company itself; the one where they got US$150 just for 'deciding' to go HD DVD exclusive. The $150 million was to HELP them "decide" to go HD DVD exclusive. That is a sound business decision...just not an ethical one (as you could tell by Disney's and other's reactions). | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | The general audience will not start buying when they don't see a reason to change. Price is in this case a good point. HD DVD is cheaper, and when you don't see certain titles become available on the High Def format but do see them available on DVD people might start to think. I agree that sales number and revenue will determine if a format will 'win', and at this point I don't think the revenue for the Blu-ray companies is as high as the ones supporting HD DVD. Let me put it differently, I still don't have a Blu-ray player 'cos I don't want to shell-out somewhere near E1000 for a Blu-ray player, still I want to 'show' commitment to Blu-ray by not buying a HD DVD player, yet titles that are really interesting are not available? I know people at marketing, and no I don't think it is one or two, I work for a large international organisation and know how slow the cogwheels turn. But what are they pondering about. Let consumers buy the DVD and then release the Blu-ray? (I keep comming back to The Jungle Book) or release it now, and release it in seven years when we know more which format actually won, if that actually applies? For that matter, marketing people are as dumb as hell. They see one thing, their target, and nothing else. This is a problem I have as Project Manager with people from Business. And it looks like they do try to run HD into non-profitability. I agree that D&D releases are profitable but to get people to cross the line. True about the Blu-ray/HD DVD Spielberg, hadn't thought it completely thru  | | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 485 |
| | Posted: | | | | FWIW, the 40GB PS3 launched this week in the Netherlands. Retail price at MediaMarkt was 399 euro (including BTW/VAT/sales taxes), I think. To prevent disappointed customers the store clearly indicated "no PS2 compatibility". They slashed 100 euro of the 60GB PS3, now around 499...
Of course this excludes the remote control. These are not the low cost players BRD needs...
BTW ,the Spider-man BRD trilogy was also released this week here, cost in 60 euro. That looks like a great price. | | | Eric
If it is important, say it. Otherwise, let silence speak. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | Does look like a good price, except for that it is not what I am looking for I'm gonna try the BR player of a friend with my PS one and PS2 games. | | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | quoting A_S:
"In the end, this war WILL be determined by sales numbers. We all know where those numbers point to."
You still don't get it. It's NOT a war, and nobody "wins" if everybody loses. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting JP_S: Quote:
The general audience will not start buying when they don't see a reason to change.
Price is in this case a good point. HD DVD is cheaper, and when you don't see certain titles become available on the High Def format but do see them available on DVD people might start to think. Personally, I've noticed that a lot of people are deciding NOT to rebuy catalog titles. They are deciding to only buy day & date releases in HD. Quote:
I agree that sales number and revenue will determine if a format will 'win', and at this point I don't think the revenue for the Blu-ray companies is as high as the ones supporting HD DVD. Let me put it differently, I still don't have a Blu-ray player 'cos I don't want to shell-out somewhere near E1000 for a Blu-ray player, still I want to 'show' commitment to Blu-ray by not buying a HD DVD player, yet titles that are really interesting are not available? The revenue IS higher for the BDA camp versus the HD DVD camp. The BDA is 80% of the CE manufacturers. Sony, by itself, beats MS in revenue by almost $20 billion (2006). Toshiba is about $10 billion behind Sony at $52 billion. Matsushita (Panasonic) is about $32 billion. Philips revenue is about $52 billion. That's just 3 companies in the BDA (out of about 170). I didn't know the low end Blu-ray players were around 1000 Euros. I thought they were under around 500 Euros. Could you provide a link to that information? Quote:
I know people at marketing, and no I don't think it is one or two, I work for a large international organisation and know how slow the cogwheels turn. But what are they pondering about. Let consumers buy the DVD and then release the Blu-ray? (I keep comming back to The Jungle Book) or release it now, and release it in seven years when we know more which format actually won, if that actually applies? I understand what you're saying. It's tough being apart of the early adoption market. We all just have to bare with it. Even if Disney was on HD DVD's side, this title would most likely NOT be released either. Quote:
For that matter, marketing people are as dumb as hell. They see one thing, their target, and nothing else. This is a problem I have as Project Manager with people from Business. And it looks like they do try to run HD into non-profitability.
I agree that D&D releases are profitable but to get people to cross the line.
True about the Blu-ray/HD DVD Spielberg, hadn't thought it completely thru I understand your perspective as a Project Manager in a large firm. I have done that also. Marketing people can be....misguided at times. When it comes to these titles being released in HD, however, not much power lies with the marketing department. We just have to be patient. The HDMedia market (HD player wise) is starting to have a decent growing spurt. They have jumped for 1.3% of the total player market to 5% of the player market within this year! | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting eommen: Quote:
FWIW, the 40GB PS3 launched this week in the Netherlands. Retail price at MediaMarkt was 399 euro (including BTW/VAT/sales taxes), I think. To prevent disappointed customers the store clearly indicated "no PS2 compatibility". They slashed 100 euro of the 60GB PS3, now around 499...
Of course this excludes the remote control. These are not the low cost players BRD needs...
BTW ,the Spider-man BRD trilogy was also released this week here, cost in 60 euro. That looks like a great price. Don't worry. Lower cost standalone BD player ARE coming and soon! | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Battling Butler: Quote:
quoting A_S:
"In the end, this war WILL be determined by sales numbers. We all know where those numbers point to."
You still don't get it. It's NOT a war, and nobody "wins" if everybody loses. You still don't get it. It IS a war and it's VERY likely that people will win. It just probably won't be HD DVD according to the market data around the world. Have you noticed the amount of HD programming that is coming out? Have you noticed there are 1080 camcorders on the market? How are you going to get that HD on-air content? How are you going to store those 1080 video files? What are you going to play them back on? The chips are being put down. The federal mandate deadline for digital content in the US is coming in less than 18 months (for OTA transmissions). This HD ball is rolling. HD media has a high chance of success now that content providers are moving to more and more HD content and gaining more and more HD customers. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
quoting A_S:
"In the end, this war WILL be determined by sales numbers. We all know where those numbers point to."
You still don't get it. It's NOT a war, and nobody "wins" if everybody loses.
You still don't get it. It IS a war and it's VERY likely that people will win. It just probably won't be HD DVD according to the market data around the world.
Have you noticed the amount of HD programming that is coming out? Have you noticed there are 1080 camcorders on the market? How are you going to get that HD on-air content? How are you going to store those 1080 video files? What are you going to play them back on? The chips are being put down. The federal mandate deadline for digital content in the US is coming in less than 18 months (for OTA transmissions).
This HD ball is rolling. HD media has a high chance of success now that content providers are moving to more and more HD content and gaining more and more HD customers. the only "War" is in your mind |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
A_S hasn't posted this in a while ....hmm, I wonder why? 
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom100707/index.php
Nielsen VideoScan - HiDef Market Share for week end 9/30/07:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom100707/index.php
Blu-ray 54% HD DVD 46%
I will usually post when there are deceptive overtones in people's posts or if people are just misinformed.
For instance, you have a deceptive overtone of HD DVD is making some grand comeback. If people don't look at what was released at that time, they might would agree with you. But, you know I do my research, so I know what causes certain things to happen.
That week for HD DVD releases looked like the following:
* Evening (Universal)
* Freedom: 2 (Bandai Visual)
* The Getaway (1994) (Universal)
* Gods and Generals (Warner)
* Gothika (Warner)
* Knocked Up (Universal) (Day & Date Release)
* Next (Paramount) (Day & Date Release)
* Patch Adams (Universal)
* The Wild Bunch (Warner)
* Wyatt Earp (Warner)
That week for Blu-ray releases looked liked the following:
* Black Book (Sony)
* Gods and Generals (Warner)
* Gothika (Warner)
* Memoirs of a Geisha (Sony)
* Tekkonkinkreet (Sony)
* Underworld (Sony)
* The Wild Bunch (Warner)
* Wyatt Earp (Warner)
NO Day & Date releases and HD DVD STILL lost! Day & Date releases, BY FAR, sell the most, but it didn't help HD DVD win a week! That's really  . The week that HD DVD has a very good chance of winning is next week (Transformers) and MAYBE the week after. Then Spiderman 3 comes out, so you know what happens after that.
Since you like Nielsen numbers, I will post Friday's results here. How does that strike you?
HERE is of Nielsen Videoscan numbers for this year. Enjoy. As promised...  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | How about some good news for a change Well, can't promoise a low price  LG Goes Full Profile With BH200 Dual-Format HD DVD/Blu-ray Player Due before the end of October, LG's new dual-format player may end up being the first Blu-ray player to hit the market with secondary BD-Java support. As we've previously reported, the BDA has mandated all that Blu-ray players launched after October 31, 2007 include a series of features (including full BD-J support) in order to be Profile 1.1 compliant. The updates will enable a series of functions not supported by current Blu-ray players, including true video picture-in-picture playback. Although to date, no manufacturer has released a Profile 1.1 player ahead of the BDA deadline, LG said yesterday that its soon-to-street BH200 dual-format player will include "full profile specifications" for Blu-ray players. According to a Video Business report, the revelation came from LG product development director Tim Alessi while speaking on a panel yesterday at the HDTV DisplaySearch Conference in Universal City, California. The announcement would suggest a nice turnaround in the works for LG in its next-gen exploits. Although the manufacturer's first dual-format player included primary BD-J support, it was roundly criticized for its complete lack of support for HDi (the technology that powers HD DVD's interactive functionality); now, its second player seems poised to include the most advanced interactive functionality available on both formats. LG is currently the only manufacturer to have released a dual-format player in the US, but it's due for some company in the coming months. This past summer, Samsung announced plans to release its own dual-format player, the BDP-UP5000; the Samsung player is expected to hit stores later this quarter. -- HighDefDigest.com | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Asc...Well, if you're only looking at blockbuster titles and they both have the same number of releases the reasoning for my argument is relatively simple. You're a smart guy, figure it out.
If it's a two to one sales ratio then BD isn't going to increase that ratio simply by matching blockbuster releases...It won't change. It will still be 2-1...SImple enough? |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Why are LG and Samsung releasing dual format players if they whole heartedly feel that BD is going to beat HD? That's piss poor business management to invest the time and money needed on something that won't benefit them in the long-run. They might as well start manufacturing stand alone HD players and sell both. Could it be that BD is actually losing some support? |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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