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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
You admitted that Blu-ray has an overall PQ lead on HD DVD (based only on HighDefDigest.com reviews...please do the others as well). Somehow, you failed to talk about the HUGE SQ gap in score. Why is that? 
SQ=Sound Quality. Sound=Audio. He included audio scores as well. Since you seemed to have missed it, I will help you out here...
"This means that with 20 additional titles reviewed BD has a .07% (negligible) average lead in audio and a .2% (barely noticeable to the average eye) average lead with video quality... " He included the audio score, but only went on about the .07 LEAD (not .07%...big difference) in PQ Blu-ray has (and how it doesn't count for much). That's what I was making reference to. The SQ of .20 is not a .20% difference. His math skills need work. That SQ lead is HUGE (and DESPITE being crippled by neutral studio title releases tailor made for HD DVD's lower bandwidth). It's funny because Twojay has a thread on who has their TVs and sound systems calibrated to professional standards. Then he posts here about...not that much difference in PQ (obviously, he understands the SQ number is a big gap). Why would he get his equpment calibrated to those standards if he didn't want to take advantage of INCREASED PQ and SQ? It just doesn't follow suit. A person that wants to take adavantage of better PQ and SQ should not logically try to push HD DVD over Blu-ray. Hell, he just admitted that looking at those numbers brought him to the conclusion that Blu-ray has better PQ and SQ. This is just SO weird. EDIT: Used the wrong word. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
So, YES, neutral studios have a bias towards HD DVD even though Blu-ray outsells HD DVD titles at greater than 2:1. As I say alot, feel free to research this.  I know you guys hate anyone quoting A_S, but I am sorry, he just seems to love to spew this stupid 2:1 garbage every other freakin post and I just had to pull out the Pac Man chart to remind him just how insignificant, in fact less than 1% insignificant, that 2:1 crap is!!! | | | | My Collection!!! | | | | Last edited: by Calidain |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Being an eyewitnessing to a crime is subjective. Being an eyewitness to better PQ and SQ is subjective. But, get a bunch of eyewitnesses (that are using a logical process) together and they're all saying the same thing, chances are there is something to it. I referenced 5 of the top online HD reviewer sites. There must be something to it. Funny, I could say the same thing about video game reviewers. I mean, both groups use a subjective process to determine the rating, right? I guess this analogy only works when it is in your favor huh?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
You admitted that Blu-ray has an overall PQ lead on HD DVD (based only on HighDefDigest.com reviews...please do the others as well). Somehow, you failed to talk about the HUGE SQ gap in score. Why is that?
SQ=Sound Quality. Sound=Audio. He included audio scores as well. Since you seemed to have missed it, I will help you out here...
"This means that with 20 additional titles reviewed BD has a .07% (negligible) average lead in audio and a .2% (barely noticeable to the average eye) average lead with video quality... "
He included the audio score, but only went on about the .07 LEAD (not .07%...big difference) in PQ Blu-ray has (and how it doesn't count for much). That's what I was making reference to. The SQ of .20 is not a .20% difference. His math skills need work. That SQ lead is HUGE (and DESPITE being crippled by neutral studio title releases tailor made for HD DVD's lower bandwidth). That may have been what you were making reference to...thought I seriously doubt that statement...it isn't what you said. You said, "Somehow, you failed to talk about the HUGE SQ gap in score. Why is that?" Truth be told, he didn't fail to talk about it. Just because you don't like the way he did it doesn't mean he didn't talk about it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Calidain: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
So, YES, neutral studios have a bias towards HD DVD even though Blu-ray outsells HD DVD titles at greater than 2:1. As I say alot, feel free to research this.
I know you guys hate anyone quoting A_S, but I am sorry, he just seems to love to spew this stupid 2:1 garbage every other freakin post and I just had to pull out the Pac Man chart to remind him just how insignificant, in fact less than 1% insignificant, that 2:1 crap is!!! 2 things... 1. We are talking about the HD market...not the entire home video market. 2. I believe that 1% should be around 3% now. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Being an eyewitnessing to a crime is subjective. Being an eyewitness to better PQ and SQ is subjective. But, get a bunch of eyewitnesses (that are using a logical process) together and they're all saying the same thing, chances are there is something to it. I referenced 5 of the top online HD reviewer sites. There must be something to it.
Funny, I could say the same thing about video game reviewers. I mean, both groups use a subjective process to determine the rating, right? I guess this analogy only works when it is in your favor huh? The difference is that a top video game reviewer could be ANYONE that played games for a while. A top movie reviewer generally needs to do a lot more than watch movies. That is why top movie reviewers go into edge enhancements, black levels, bit rates, color accurancy, and reference calibrated equipment, etc. Then, they actually talk about the movie itself (which is usually completely based on that individual's taste). How many video game reviewers talk about the polygon counts, how many vertex shaders were active during certain levels, etc? There's the difference. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
You admitted that Blu-ray has an overall PQ lead on HD DVD (based only on HighDefDigest.com reviews...please do the others as well). Somehow, you failed to talk about the HUGE SQ gap in score. Why is that?
SQ=Sound Quality. Sound=Audio. He included audio scores as well. Since you seemed to have missed it, I will help you out here...
"This means that with 20 additional titles reviewed BD has a .07% (negligible) average lead in audio and a .2% (barely noticeable to the average eye) average lead with video quality... "
He included the audio score, but only went on about the .07 LEAD (not .07%...big difference) in PQ Blu-ray has (and how it doesn't count for much). That's what I was making reference to. The SQ of .20 is not a .20% difference. His math skills need work. That SQ lead is HUGE (and DESPITE being crippled by neutral studio title releases tailor made for HD DVD's lower bandwidth).
That may have been what you were making reference to...thought I seriously doubt that statement...it isn't what you said. You said, "Somehow, you failed to talk about the HUGE SQ gap in score. Why is that?" Truth be told, he didn't fail to talk about it. Just because you don't like the way he did it doesn't mean he didn't talk about it. So it didn't raise ANY flags to you that in a conversion about PQ and SQ, he goes into depth about the PQ difference and not a thing about the SQ difference? No flag at all raised when you saw that? | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
...2. I believe that 1% should be around 3% now. No, still less than 2%. Standard DVD sales are still rising, actually. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | The research arm of Home Media Magazine said it was 2.5% as of Aug. 15, 2007. The article is on Highdefdigest.com. Can't cut and paste...on PS3. I can tell you the article was posted on Highdefdigest.com on Aug. 24, 2007. I'd just like to know where your numbers come from and when was it last updated.
I know the DVD market numbers mean more to you that the HD market. We both produced numbers. Your numbers are for the DVD market. You feel the HD market has to beat DVD before beating each other. Maybe it's based on some research of yours (I jdon't know). My numbers are for the HD market. I feel the HD market will sort itself out before taking on DVD (due to my market research on trends). We disagree on the validity to this situation. Nothing but time will answer this one (if Blu-ray increases it's lead and holds at 3.5:1 for 5 to 8 months).
EDIT: Missed some letters and added a point. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mine was from early August. But I find little at your link beyond Amazon sales figures.
And all formats are sold many places, including Amazon, whose figures would be typical of on-line buyers, but not necessarily reflective of buyers at WalMart, Target, and various other retailers' stores. Let us not forget sales at drug stores, supermarkets, etc., where hidef discs are still generally unavailable.
And 2.5% is not 3%, yet. The pie chart reflected 1.8% of the market, earlier in 2007. I'm not obsessive enough to rebuild the chart every few weeks.
Even 5% of the market, shared by two essentially incompatible formats, is not much impact on the entire market, especially when the overall market is growing, including the actual nubers of the 95% (which, by your figures is still at 97.5%). | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
STEFC has a PS3 as a BD player only (according to him). WRONG - My PS3 is a games console - I have bought 1 BD disc, still can't find another worth buying. Show me where I state i have a PS3 player as a BD player only... |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
The difference is that a top video game reviewer could be ANYONE that played games for a while. A top movie reviewer generally needs to do a lot more than watch movies. That is why top movie reviewers go into edge enhancements, black levels, bit rates, color accurancy, and reference calibrated equipment, etc. Then, they actually talk about the movie itself (which is usually completely based on that individual's taste).
How many video game reviewers talk about the polygon counts, how many vertex shaders were active during certain levels, etc? There's the difference. WRONG. "Top video game reviewers" are not ANYONE. They are journalists who work for publishing companies and take their work seriously. If they focused on polygon counts, they would bore their readers to death, they discuss the merits of a game, or lack thereof, and discuss graphics and sound in relation to the gameplay experience and art style. A game is not rated on how many vertex shaders are active per level. WRONG."Top movie reviewers" do not go into the technology of home movie formats, they review movies. Script, Plot, Direction, Performances, Themes, Cinematography, Art Direction, Sound etc etc. Movie reviews have absolutely nothing to do with DVD/HD DVD/BLU RAY edge enhancement and bitrates. | | | | Last edited: by stefc |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
The Blu-ray player side of the PS3 has ONLY had updates for INCREASING FUNCTIONALITY...NOT for fixing PROBLEMS. WRONG - Quote:
1.82: Downscaled output of Blu-ray Discs is now supported. When 720p is selected as the video output setting of the PS3™ system, Blu-ray Discs that were recorded in 1080p or 1080i resolution can be played in 720p resolution. Thats not a feature, thats a fix. No 720p playback was a PS3 PROBLEM as it was a FUNCTION on stand alone BD players. | | | | Last edited: by stefc |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am seeing way too many people quoting that idiot The ASC. Please stop trying to debate him. We all know he is a waste of space...so just block him. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Seeing as so many people would quote him, and Ken disagreed with me showing people how to block him, i got tired of reading his garbage in other peoples posts. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Being an eyewitnessing to a crime is subjective. Being an eyewitness to better PQ and SQ is subjective. But, get a bunch of eyewitnesses (that are using a logical process) together and they're all saying the same thing, chances are there is something to it. I referenced 5 of the top online HD reviewer sites. There must be something to it.
Funny, I could say the same thing about video game reviewers. I mean, both groups use a subjective process to determine the rating, right? I guess this analogy only works when it is in your favor huh?
The difference is that a top video game reviewer could be ANYONE that played games for a while. A top movie reviewer generally needs to do a lot more than watch movies. That is why top movie reviewers go into edge enhancements, black levels, bit rates, color accurancy, and reference calibrated equipment, etc. Then, they actually talk about the movie itself (which is usually completely based on that individual's taste).
How many video game reviewers talk about the polygon counts, how many vertex shaders were active during certain levels, etc? There's the difference. Nice try, but no cigar. Both sets of reviewers use subjective standards to rate their respective mediums. You say good things about the movie reviewers because they give Blu-ray the edge. You say bad things about the game reviewers because they gave the PS3 game a bad review. It is clear to anyone that is paying attention that you only support things that bolster your opinion. Anything that doesn't is crap. Can you say 'Zealot'?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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