Quoting twojayz:

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I didn't reverse anything, I have been trying to impart on you that both formats use the same basic technologies. I don't dicard that they are used in different ways. I never did. You read so much into every post that you always miss the point. I never even mentioned VC-1 until recently. I never claimed that BD doesn't support or use it...

I posted all the numbers as a reference point, in other words, to see how PS3 is doing in general terms. It's relevant since you keep boasting about the sales, not me.

If you're so well versed on all the specifications of each format then you wouldn't say the things you say, knowing that they are highly misleading if not flat out wrong. I thought you might need a refresher.

Ahh, to hell with it. You don't seem to have any concept of reality, I'm out...

I never said you called the CODECs by name.

Near the bottom of Page 104...Your post reads as follows...

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For instance, the idea that Blu-Ray uses the same technologies as HD DVD, as I've seen posted on this forum. That is simply not the case. Yes, Blu-Ray has support for it, yet (to my knowledge) there have been no titles actually produced using it (MPEG4). I could be wrong on that but as I said, as far as I know my information is still accurate.

This clearly shows you didn't know that Blu-ray used MPEG 4 Part 10 (AVC).

The top of page 107...your post reads as follows...

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The new compression technologies are highly efficient at doing the job and outperform MPEG-2 in nearly every case. Bandwidth can be a somewhat misleading concept, similar to contrast ratio specs on a display. If HD is capable of ouputting the same quality within the constraints of bandwidth limitations then the argument becomes moot. The same argument applies to any two competing products, whether it be BD vs. HD or anything else. In a way it's similar to gas mileage in vehicles where some models are more efficient at using the same amount of product than others. If my vehicle gets 30 miles per gallon and another gets 15 then I don't need the extra gas (bandwidth) to get to where I'm going.

The ONLY way this really makes sense is if you are implying that Blu-ray can't use "the new compression technologies" exactly like HD DVD.  Plus, it also implies that you are not fully aware of Blu-ray ability to go way beyond the limits of HD DVD's use of those "new compression technologies".

I guess my job to make you aware of what you post, now.

Quoting twojayz:

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The cost of programming has to be included and looked at when taking the entire thing in. It eats up way too much time and time means money. Especially considering the level of expertise needed to perform the task. Those programmers aren't coming cheap and all figure into the overall cost, and lack of profit margin. That will impact the success of the product. Pricing will come down in time but the same holds true for HD. I don't think Blu-ray can be competitively priced to the average consumer anytime in the near future. By competitively priced I mean within 10-15% difference between models. For instance, if in fact a HD player comes in at $200 around the holidays, a competively priced BD player would have to come in around $220 - $230, nothing more than $250. That's not going to happen.

Even with the programming cost added in to the software, Blu-ray titles either cost LESS or the SAME as a HD DVD title.  Funny, huh?

Blu-ray player have to be within a 10 - 15% between similarly equipped models, even though Blu-ray has 66% more space, 60% more bandwidth, and more powerful software?  How is that logical?

Quoting pplchamp:

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In the case of Live Free or Die Hard.... this was the word as to why... I'll leave it up to you to believe or dismiss.

Quoting: The Digital Bits (9/5/07)

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By the way, while we're talking about Fox titles, we've got an update for you on the studio's forthcoming Live Free and Die Hard Blu-ray (due on 11/20). We've confirmed that the disc will include only the PG-13 theatrical cut of the film. This has upset some fans, who are aware that the studio is releasing an uncut version of the film on DVD the same day. The reason for the decision is that the uncut version was finished by the director only AFTER completing all the theatrical press junkets and promotional appearances for the film. Unfortunately, this was too late to complete compression and authoring for the Blu-ray version in time to meet street date. So the studio was basically faced with the choice of delaying the title or releasing the theatrical cut only day and date with the DVD. So that's the reason it's PG-13 only.

I call Shenanigans!

Delay the release by a couple of weeks to get it done.  After all, the delay game is something that Fox is good at.

Ascended...Honestly, you are truly incapable of having an intelligent debate based on fact.
My God, you turn things around and spew crap that simply isn't true.

In reference to the whole codec thing, VC-1 included, I was corrected and owned up to my mistake. Did you forget that part? I admitted that the information I typed was wrong and took responsibility for it. I shouldn't be surprised that you have omitted that little bit of relevant information.

Toshiba is doing a hell of a lot better since it costs considerably less for them to produce the hardware because it is based on standard DVD manufacturing processes. You do know that, right? Toshiba is winning the standalone market which is worth a lot. Take out the game unit and BDA has nothing to brag about.

At least Toshiba had the intelligence to make use of an internet connection on the players to provide the updates that were and continue to be needed.

Blu-ray does not cost the same to produce. Get your figures straight.

Just because the titles cost the same or less doesn't mean they don't eat up a lot more COST to produce, which was my point. Again, you fail to comprehend.

Blu-ray would have to be priced within (a guess of) 10-15% because most people aren't going to give a damn about storage space or technical specs. If they can't recognize a huge advantage to BD they won't pay, and that has been the case thus far.

Quoting twojayz:

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Ascended...This one's for you bud, you make my butt itch...I don't have the Prep H so I'll just ignore you from here on out so you can post as much as you'd like but I am not going to see it.

It took you awhile but your finally there bud, now if people WOULD STOP QUOTING HIM, the world could be a better place. 

Quoting Boykin:

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Quoting AS:

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Both HD players were rushed to market before they were ready.  That is a fact.  The countless updates for the HD DVD players, lip-sync issues, some discs weren't compatible, Children of Men disc issues with some players, having to BOIL some discs to get them to play, etc.  Blu-ray player (Samsung) had noise reduction chip left on (resulting in soft pictures), The Fifth Element poor encode wth a few other titles, fimware updates for all players to make BD-J run better (except of the PS3), not having all the BD profiles come out in players from day one due to cost, etc.

If you are going to point out that HD DVD players are getting updates, you should also point out that the PS3 usually gets one or more updates every month.  There was not one in August 07, but there have already been 2 updates released in 09/07.  One on 09/04 and one on 09/13.  August is the only month that did not see a firmware upgrade for the PS3 since I got mine.  Some months have had more than one.  At least 2 months out of the past 6 have had 2 PS3 updates released. 

I have had my HD DVD player a year and a half, and have not had nearly as many updates as my PS3 has had in the 6 months that I have had it. 

So, getting updates is either bad or good depending on how you look at it.  They can be providing new features or fixing bugs.  Usually both.  So if it is a con for HD DVD players, it is a con for the PS3. 
Since you have argued that the PS3 should not be considered a gaming console, then all updates for the PS3 must be counted as updates for Blu-ray.  Since the final specs for Blu-ray are not final yet, there will be MANY more updates for the PS3 over the next few months and years.

One question...how many of those updates have been for BD playing functionality?  None that I can remember.  The only ones that should be for the BD playing capabilities should be the Profile 1.1 and/or 2.0 updates and finally DTS-HD MA update.

You are talking about updates for something other than Blu-ray and HD DVD.  Those updates are for gaming, media server, and web functionality.  You are in the wrong section for that.  Don't get hostile because I pointed out some of HD DVD's flaws (I know a lot more of those flaws but didn't mention them).  I did point out that neither side was ready to launch when they did.

Quoting twojayz:

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Ascended...Honestly, you are truly incapable of having an intelligent debate based on fact.
My God, you turn things around and spew crap that simply isn't true.

A_S claims another victim!
       

And then as a supplement, here's a portion of the same sites review of 300:

Warner presents both the HD DVD and Blu-ray versions with identical 1080p/VC-1 encodes in the film's original 2.40:1 projected aspect ratio, and if nothing else, this is a very accurate reproduction of the theatrical experience of '300' (at least the one I saw projected digitally at a flagship theater here in Los Angeles).

All things considered, I still found watching '300' an often less-than thrilling experience on a purely subjective level of wanting to enjoy a good-looking, awe-inspiring high-def image. But as a representation of the film's style, there's no debating that this HD DVD edition of '300' delivers -- so much so that even for high-def purist like myself, it's possible to ignore the film's intentionally degraded visual design and just enjoy the ride.

Unlike the video, I have absolutely no reservations about the audio on this disc. '300' is a real high-resolution scorcher. This is the kind of film that has such barn-stormin' sound design that any caveats I might have are washed away by the sheer bombastic thrill of it all.

Warner has supplied both the HD DVD and the Blu-ray with matching Dolby TrueHD 5.1 surround tracks (48kHz/16-bit), while the Blu-ray is also graced with an additional PCM 5.1 surround option (48kHz/16-bit/6.9mbps). Right upfront, the PCM sounded a bit louder, but after some level matching, a direct A/B comparison of several scenes revealed only slight differences. Although I'm sure this disc will stir up the whole TrueHD vs PCM debate, either way you slice it, the action scenes in '300' deliver the kind of demo-worthy audio that should be pure nirvana for any home theater enthusiast.

Dynamics are incredibly aggressive, with heart-stopping low bass that gave my subwoofer as good a workout as any next-gen disc I've ever heard. Since the majority of '300's soundtrack was created entirely in the studio, the cleanliness and clarity of the entire frequency range is startlingly lifelike and real. The "wall of sound" effect is in full force, with discrete effects in the rears wonderfully immersive and sustained. Imaging between channels is seamless, so crank up the volume and you'll be treated to the kind of rare, in-your-face 360-degree home theater soundfield that's second only to what you'll find in the actual cinema. Dialogue is also perfectly balanced -- again, no surprise given that almost the entire movie was looped.

While it's tempting to dock the audio score for this HD DVD edition of '300' simply because its Blu-ray counterpart gives consumers the option of choosing their preferred high resolution audio format, judged on its own merits, the TrueHD track on this HD DVD is just too good be anything less than five stars all the way.

Although the concurrently-released HD DVD edition of '300' includes a suite of high-def extras, unfortunately none are included in this Blu-ray disc, due to current hardware limitations that don't allow for nifty extras such as picture-in-picture commentaries and web-enabled content.

And the point here (in case you really need it pointed out) is that regardless of any supposed technical shortcomings HD DVD has as a format it is obviously not preventing outstanding visuals and yes, audio as well. Oh yeah, the HD version got the extras too! I mean, this disc got 5 stars, yes, out of 5. Not sure how you beat a 5 out of 5.... For the record the BD version rated just as good. So, anyway. Can we finally give up the argument that no HD discs come close to matching the quality of BD, it's obviously not the case, regardless of what some may say.