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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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Registered: March 17, 2007 | Posts: 82 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote: Actually, a lot of people can tell the difference between DTS and TrueHD (both streams...FBA and FBB). Every person I have demo'ed DD and PCM can tell a drastic difference between the two. They could definitely tell the difference between DD and DTS. You are just about the only person I have heard of that has listened to legacy and next-gen audio codecs and not be able to tell a difference (I am assuming you have listened to both back to back). Personally, I can tell the difference between the TrueHD FBA and FBB streams (true loseless and lossy respectively). That ability is not uncommon. I never said I heard TrueHD, did I? My argument is that you can easily SEE a better picture, but higher sound quality is still very subtle. Most people who watch DVDs at home or see movies at the theater don't care about sound. They may know if the movie was "too loud", but not if it was 2.0, 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1, Dolby or DTS. There are still many that will say "It was shown in THX" - just showing how much they (don't) know... It's very obvious to me when the sound changes from digital surround to analog stereo in the theater when there are problems with the film, but others will only notice a small buzz when the switch-over occurs. In short: most people don't care. I know that I'm on the "Vinyl is better than CD" side here. I'm not saying TrueHD or lossless is useless, but when the capacity is limited, there's no problem to drop the lossless audio and invest the bits into picture quality. There's not much to comment on regarding your listening tests, your friends will probably hear a difference, but I'm still reserving the right to be sceptic. | | | Samsung UE55C6200, Yamaha RX-V2067, Xbox 360, PS3. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 811 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote: Quoting mnemo:
Quote: Really, who needs lossless audio? Totally unnecessary in my opinion and mostly for purists. The truth is we don't NEED High Definition moving pictures and sound, but a lot of us want it. This type of technology is completely driven by wants. ..... and obsessive, know-it-all, motor mouths |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 460 |
| Posted: | | | | Well it probably sounds stupid, but I can hear the difference between AC3 and DTS, and therefore I prefer DTS, on a SD DVD. I don't mind what sound is on a Hi-Def disc, but prefferably something DTS. But I think Ascended has got a valid point that we actually don't need HiDef picture, but people want more and better. No sound -> Sound mono -> Stereo -> Pro Logic -> AC3/DTS/SDDS (5.1) -> AC3/DTS EX -> and better Same goes for picture B/W reels -> Colour reels -> Digital Quote: ...but when the capacity is limited, there's no problem to drop the lossless audio and invest the bits into picture quality. I do agree here though, but I'd rather give up a few extras | | | Jean-Paul | | | Last edited: by Zoeper |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 12 |
| Posted: | | | | I see the new site hasn't changed the tone of this thread at all. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,127 |
| Posted: | | | | Blu-ray...over 1 million discs sold...700,000 in 2007Quote: The Digital Bits... 3/27/07
Well... we've got a bunch of high-definition news to report this morning. Standard DVD release news will follow at the end of the post.
First up today, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has just announced that the Casino Royale Blu-ray Disc, released on 3/13, has become the first high-definition title to ship 100,000 copies, and reportedly broke single-day sales records for a high-def title as well. Apparently 50,000 copies were shipped to retailers with another 30,000 on reserve - all sold out by the second day of release. Back in 1998, the first title to ship 100,000 units on DVD (Sony's Air Force One) took 11 months to do so. Royale has done that for Blu-ray in just two weeks. It will certainly be interesting to see how well The Matrix Trilogy sells on HD-DVD in May, and how Cars and the Pirates films do later this year on Blu-ray. The same Home Media Retailing story confirms that over 1 million Blu-ray Discs have now sold to consumers (700,000 this year in 2007), with about 900,000 HD-DVDs sold (310,000 in 2007). You can read more at Video Business as well. The lead has grown from 1,000 to 40,000 to 100,000 discs in favor of Blu-ray in little over a month's time. | | | To err is human... ----------- 473 Blu-ray Titles | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote: The lead has grown from 1,000 to 40,000 to 100,000 discs in favor of Blu-ray in little over a month's time. Blah, blah, blah, blah... | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 811 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote: The lead has grown from 1,000 to 40,000 to 100,000 discs in favor of Blu-ray in little over a month's time. Memo to AsC: Are you ever going to stop posting endless strings of numbers? No One Cares |
| Registered: April 2, 2007 | Posts: 7 |
| Posted: | | | | If Warner was to start releasing the titles they have been holding back from releasing on HD-DVD because their Blu-Ray counterparts aren't working HD-DVD would have a huge selling point, especially since Fox and MGM are currently MIA for Blu-Ray. Hopefully The Matrix announcement is just the first of many more HD-DVD releases with "Blu-Ray release later in the year". |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,127 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MatrixMan07: Quote: If Warner was to start releasing the titles they have been holding back from releasing on HD-DVD because their Blu-Ray counterparts aren't working HD-DVD would have a huge selling point, especially since Fox and MGM are currently MIA for Blu-Ray. Hopefully The Matrix announcement is just the first of many more HD-DVD releases with "Blu-Ray release later in the year". If you choose to believe Warner is holding back HD DVD titles because of Blu-ray, that's fine. But, one should ask the question...If that is true, why didn't they hold back the other titles with PiP (like V for Vendetta, Batman Begins, The Matrix, etc.)? | | | To err is human... ----------- 473 Blu-ray Titles | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,127 |
| Posted: | | | | Dragon's Lair Interview... Quote: What were some of the biggest challenges in bringing it to the Blu-ray format?
David Foster: The biggest really was Blu-ray Java. We really were pioneers in terms of getting something to work. The documentation and the availability of hardware to test on was really a nightmare, quite honestly. It took us nearly eight solid months to do something, that if we had the right documentation, could be done in probably a month. So just at every turn when there would be something that would go wrong, there would be sort of a different implementation across the few different players we had to test on. Functions would be implemented differently, so we had to find some sort of common way to handle all these different machines. The good news is the Playstation 3, which honestly we could not test on, we crossed our fingers and checked discs, the PS3 turned out to be a great implementation of BD-J. It really plays the best than on any other system. So, sigh of relief!
Yeah a big one, I imagine!
DF: Yeah, it's not cheap to run these masters. Everything is expensive with blu-ray. If something had gone wrong on the blu-ray in a big way, we would just have no way to try and even figure out what to change to try and make it work. Let alone the $3000+ you need to pay every time to make a master. So, big sigh of relief when it worked and it worked fantastically.
So how many Blu-ray players did you test on?
DF: We have 3 players. The challenge of the players is that they don't allow us to put in anything but a final production ready disc. So, these test discs that we cut, there's only really two players, plus a PC player, that we're able to actually test on. So we had to extrapolate all the little problems we had on those and try to make generalized solutions that would work for the rest of the BD-J implementations.
Was it a lack of the technical support on the programming of the Java on the Blu-Ray that made it difficult?
DF: Yeah, unless you are in the inner circle. We were really early on with development tools that we purchased. We just aren't in the inner circle that someone at Sony or one of the big companies could probably just get information. We really had to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
Why did you guys go with Blu-Ray instead of HD-DVD?
DF: We still do have intentions of coming out with HD-DVD. There are just challenges in terms of the hardware that is out there right now, in terms of compatibility. Similar issues to the BD-J issues, but a little bit more severe. So we're sort of waiting that one out until there is a little bit more maturity. There's a couple of movies out there that aren't running particularly well on HD-DVD. Children of Men is one. The issues are the firmware implementations and the other is the development and technology. I think honestly on the HD side there's a lot more openness and availability of development documentation. I think it falls down a little bit on the firmware implementation. I think all of this would get addressed in the short term. We just have to wait it out a little bit. We don't want to be making the same headlines that Children of Men has. The HD DVD version of Dragon's Lair is about of 99% done.
One thing I notice between the Blu-ray movies and the HD DVD movies is that on the HD-DVD there are more interactive menus.
DF: Yeah, to do all the fun stuff on Blu-Ray you need to use the BD-J and the implementation is a little bit more variable. Admittedly, there's more blu-ray players in the marketplace, so there's a lot of different companies that are just getting up to speed on the BD-J implementations. They don't have a lot of reference material to test against. We've actually supplied our Dragon's Lair Blu-Ray disc to some of the major hardware companies to test so they can improve their firmware for future revisions.
What is the capacity that Dragon's Lair takes on the Blu-Ray disc?
DF: We take a fraction of the space, about 15-20 gigs.
Do you have an estimated release date for Dragon's Lair II and Space Ace on Blu-ray?
DF: We finished the Space Ace video cleaning. We are moving on to Dragon's Lair II. Everything is in the works. We're hoping with Space Ace we can hopefully take advantage of a couple of the new features that are coming out with the new version 2 spec of BD-J, which is scheduled for this fall. We're not going to rush it. We're going to see what we can do with Sony's new technology implementations that are going to be coming out.
Anything else you would like to tell us about the Dragon's Lair Blu-Ray release?
DF: I think fans are going to get a kick out of the commentary. We learned stuff in there. We've been doing this for twenty years, but there's stuff that came out in those interviews and commentary that was news to us. I think people will get a kick out of that. The other extra I love is the side by side comparison with the old Amiga version. I remember when the Amiga version came out and everyone was just like "wow, look at that quality, the graphics on the Amiga is amazing!" You put it side by side with the HD version and it's like "we tolerated that video quality?" | | | To err is human... ----------- 473 Blu-ray Titles |
| Registered: April 2, 2007 | Posts: 7 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote: Quoting MatrixMan07:
Quote: If Warner was to start releasing the titles they have been holding back from releasing on HD-DVD because their Blu-Ray counterparts aren't working HD-DVD would have a huge selling point, especially since Fox and MGM are currently MIA for Blu-Ray. Hopefully The Matrix announcement is just the first of many more HD-DVD releases with "Blu-Ray release later in the year". If you choose to believe Warner is holding back HD DVD titles because of Blu-ray, that's fine. But, one should ask the question...If that is true, why didn't they hold back the other titles with PiP (like V for Vendetta, Batman Begins, The Matrix, etc.)? They were holding back The Matrix for awhile now, it was originally going to be a December release for HD-DVD, as was Harry Potter. Warner decided to be as neutral as they could be with the 2 formats after HD-DVD did not come out as the clear winner in 2006. It wasn't until Universal started stepping up to the plate that Warner decided it was time to start releasing more HD-DVD even if the Blu-Ray versions were not ready. |
| Registered: March 16, 2007 | Posts: 405 |
| Posted: | | | | Anyone who expected a clearcut winner in 2006 or even by 2008 is fooling themselves, this format war has barely begun and the only casualties are the consumers!!! | | | My Collection!!! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,127 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MatrixMan07: Quote: Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote: Quoting MatrixMan07:
Quote: If Warner was to start releasing the titles they have been holding back from releasing on HD-DVD because their Blu-Ray counterparts aren't working HD-DVD would have a huge selling point, especially since Fox and MGM are currently MIA for Blu-Ray. Hopefully The Matrix announcement is just the first of many more HD-DVD releases with "Blu-Ray release later in the year". If you choose to believe Warner is holding back HD DVD titles because of Blu-ray, that's fine. But, one should ask the question...If that is true, why didn't they hold back the other titles with PiP (like V for Vendetta, Batman Begins, The Matrix, etc.)?
They were holding back The Matrix for awhile now, it was originally going to be a December release for HD-DVD, as was Harry Potter. Warner decided to be as neutral as they could be with the 2 formats after HD-DVD did not come out as the clear winner in 2006. It wasn't until Universal started stepping up to the plate that Warner decided it was time to start releasing more HD-DVD even if the Blu-Ray versions were not ready. I didn't hear any mention of V for Vendetta or Batman Begins. Generally, if a theory doesn't fit all the criteria (in this case...it doesn't fit around half the criteria), it's rejected. | | | To err is human... ----------- 473 Blu-ray Titles |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,127 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Calidain: Quote: Anyone who expected a clearcut winner in 2006 or even by 2008 is fooling themselves, this format war has barely begun and the only casualties are the consumers!!!
I guess we'll see. Wait. What is your definition of a "clearcut" winner? | | | To err is human... ----------- 473 Blu-ray Titles |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote: Quoting Calidain:
Quote: Anyone who expected a clearcut winner in 2006 or even by 2008 is fooling themselves, this format war has barely begun and the only casualties are the consumers!!!
I guess we'll see. Wait. What is your definition of a "clearcut" winner? VHS vs. Beta. The "world" adopted Beta. USA rejected it, in favor of VHS. I wonder who won? Quit counting chickens before they hatch. Recall that less than 1% of high-definition possible consumers have entered into the market with their money. I don't care if every film studio releases every film ever made in one format... if the other format is adopted by the consumers, it wins. Sales, in both players and media, is one key ingredient. Rental availability is another. Right now, the mass of people are staying out, because everyone who was alive and thinking in the 1980s remembers someone who invested in Beta equipment (and who might still waiting to sell it off). And no one, except you, knows who will win this war. I'm sure you'll answer this with at least two posts, citing figures and biased media quotes, "proving" me wrong. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,127 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote: Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote: Quoting Calidain:
Quote: Anyone who expected a clearcut winner in 2006 or even by 2008 is fooling themselves, this format war has barely begun and the only casualties are the consumers!!!
I guess we'll see. Wait. What is your definition of a "clearcut" winner?
VHS vs. Beta. The "world" adopted Beta. USA rejected it, in favor of VHS. I wonder who won?
Quit counting chickens before they hatch. Recall that less than 1% of high-definition possible consumers have entered into the market with their money. I don't care if every film studio releases every film ever made in one format... if the other format is adopted by the consumers, it wins.
Sales, in both players and media, is one key ingredient. Rental availability is another.
Right now, the mass of people are staying out, because everyone who was alive and thinking in the 1980s remembers someone who invested in Beta equipment (and who might still waiting to sell it off). And no one, except you, knows who will win this war.
I'm sure you'll answer this with at least two posts, citing figures and biased media quotes, "proving" me wrong. Nope, because it doesn't necessarily take a fortune teller to see it. If a rock is falling from a plane, how much effort does it take to know that it will hit something? I'm just waiting on Calidian definition of a "clearcut" winner. | | | To err is human... ----------- 473 Blu-ray Titles |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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