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HD DVD and Blu-ray
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:

You seem to be...that thick. 

Now you are trying to introduce a new argument because I called out your so called logic.  On top of that, your "new" argument is a 20+ year old argument.    I gave you a far more current situation.  This one is finished already.  Just let it go.


This would be funny if it weren't so sad.  Please come back to reality. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Erik:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
If HD DVD could produce 51GB discs at a price equal to BD50s (highly unlikely)

Did you ever "learn" and "discover the truth" about the cost of BD-50?

Anyway, a slightly older quote from the HD DVD folks:

"It is definitely more challenging to produce TL-51. But no one better complain if they are coming from BD land . Because BD-50 is much more complicated still. I position TL-51 in complexity around BD-25 and obviously below BD-50."

Quoting stefc:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
If HD DVD could produce 51GB discs at a price equal to BD50s (highly unlikely)

Reason behind this opinion? TL51 can be produced on existing HD DVD production lines so why would it cost more than BD50? Also worth noting is the following summary from a long AVS forum thread about TL51:
Quote:
1. TL51 and Hybrid disc 34/5 have been approved by the Forum.
2. Indications are that these will be backward compatible with Gen 1 and Gen 2 players
3. To reiterate there is no HD DVD hardware that these will not work with.
4. These can be produced on existing HD DVD lines
5. We can expect a TL51 title announcement next month
6. It's unknown if spinrate/bandwidth has been increased as part of this spec change
7. THOUSANDS of these discs have already been produced as part of testing

Can we stick to talking about this without any of you-know-who's vitriol? Bob9000 really got it right with his analysis, this thread would be a much better read if we could strip out all the nauseating arguments.

Thanks for the summary, stefc, here's hoping for the best...

Did you ever learn the cost of BD50s?  That works both ways.  I know 25GB BDs cost less than 30GB HD DVDs to produce.  I linked to this some time ago, but you know what they say about memories. 

The HD DVD FUD machine is hard at work these days.  First, it was...50GB discs aren't coming for Blu-ray.  Then, 50GB won't play on BD players (Samsung).  Then, the PS3 won't make any difference...people won't play movies on them.  Then, 30GB is enough (then they ratify a 51GB disc).  Then, HD DVD announces 600 total movies this year (yet they just crossed the 300 mark with 125 titles announced for 4th quarter).  Then, Paramount spells doom for Blu-ray when NO Paramount title was in the top 20 for Blu-ray (Nielsen numbers 2 weeks after the announcement...HD DVD STILL can't win a week).  Next, Amir says there are 6 profiles for Blu-ray players...some without memory (the Blu-ray specs for 1.1 and 2.0 is to have 256MB and 1 GB memory respectively).  Next, Blu-ray titles made for Profile 1.1 and 2.0 won't play in Profile 1.0 players.  Finally, BD50 costs SO much to manfacture ( one person on another site even said it costs $100 per disc), even though Sony plans on having 80% of releases on BD50 (catalog titles at $19.95).  That 80% is just for Sony Pictures (looks like they should hit that percentage by the end of the year).  That's not even counting the other studios that are releasing on BD50s.

It's just amazing what some groups will say (HD DVD group...I'm looking at you) or spread just to keep people from buying.  It's still not keeping Blu-ray standalone player sales from steadily gaining on HD DVD overall standalone sales.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
Quoting bob9000:
Quote:
Is it me, or has Warner embraced HD more than any other studio? They just seem to be releasing more titles to HD than other other 2 companies combined...good on them. 



It's not you....

but, it's now being rumored that Toshiba os once again offering Warner buckets of money to go HD DVD exclusive.

If true, why can't Toshiba play fair?


Sony paid Target to only carry Blu-ray players in their stores.  I didn't see anybody cry foul when that happened.  How would this be any less fair?

Dude, that's what RETAIL stores do!  They sell SPACE to manufacturers wanting to sell their products.  That the way it's ALWAYS been for a far back as I can remember!  Blu-ray was already leading in sales 2:1.  We should ALL know that retailers hate housing two formats for a format war.  The BDA just bought HD DVD's space as well (Target supposedly approached the BDA with it).  That's normal.

Don't try to compare that to the Paramount (or as some people say...Paramounted) deal.  They are not a retail store.  Plus they went COMPLETELY against market trends and drop the HD sales LEADER (Blu-ray) to support HD DVD only.  The people the voted with their wallets and purses voted for Blu-ray 2:1.  To go against that is anti-consumer behavior (by very definition).

That's the difference between the two deals.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting JP_S:
Quote:
You know what strikes me as very, very odd!?

Again a Blu-ray player is released, and ... again it is a 'so called' high-end player! Can't they release one or two cheap-a#$ players so that I can upgrade later on to a high-end

I believe the "cheap" players will be left for the Chinese manufactured player companies to release (the Funai player for instance).  Those will probably also be at Wal-mart (Funai is one of Wal-mart's top suppliers) under the name of Magnavox, Sylvania, etc.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbob9000
safety word?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Canada Posts: 844
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
It's because Warner was/is doing what they can to give HD DVD an edge while being "neutral".

God, things are so much more pleasant in here when you are not around to try and twist and spin things into your tiny world-view. You have no basis for this statement, it is utter and complete speculation AKA bull-pucky. I suppose we should expect little else from you.
 Last edited: by bob9000
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting JP_S:
Quote:
Well this probably wouldn't sound strange but Sony is going to release four new high-end Blu-ray players!!

WHOOHOOO

The BDA is establishing a complete line of Blu-ray poducts.  I believe you are talking about the 4 Blu-ray Recorders released in Japan (to come to the US at a later date), right?
To err is human...
-----------
473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting bob9000:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
It's ok, because titles like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Matrix Trilogy, Casablanca, Constantine, etc should sell AT LEAST 2 times better on Blu-ray.  Since most were released so early in the HD lifecycle, it might do 4 to 6 times better on Blu-ray in some cases (especially with PCM soundtracks).

God things are so much more pleasent in here when you are not around to try to twist and spin things into your tiny world-view. You have no basis for this statemnt, it is utter and complete speculation AKA bull-pucky. I suppose we should expect little else from you.

I'm sure things are pleasant when you can just say anything you want and no one challenges you. 

I JUST stated the basis for that statement.  Did you miss it or you just didn't care?  This part...

Quote:
Since most were released so early in the HD lifecycle,


How could even try to challenge that line?  Are you saying most of those titles I mentioned were not released in the early stages of HD?  Are you saying that the amount of Blu-ray players have not increased dramatically since they were released?  Are you saying that Blu-ray has not consistently outsold HD DVD by 2:1 so far this year?  If you are not saying that, then what's the problem? 
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbob9000
safety word?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Canada Posts: 844
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting bob9000:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
It's ok, because titles like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Matrix Trilogy, Casablanca, Constantine, etc should sell AT LEAST 2 times better on Blu-ray.  Since most were released so early in the HD lifecycle, it might do 4 to 6 times better on Blu-ray in some cases (especially with PCM soundtracks).

God things are so much more pleasent in here when you are not around to try to twist and spin things into your tiny world-view. You have no basis for this statemnt, it is utter and complete speculation AKA bull-pucky. I suppose we should expect little else from you.

I'm sure things are pleasant when you can just say anything you want and no one challenges you. 

I JUST stated the basis for that statement.  Did you miss it or you just didn't care?  This part...

Quote:
Since most were released so early in the HD lifecycle,


How could even try to challenge that line?  Are you saying most of those titles I mentioned were not released in the early stages of HD?  Are you saying that the amount of Blu-ray players have not increased dramatically since they were released?  Are you saying that Blu-ray has not consistently outsold HD DVD by 2:1 so far this year?  If you are not saying that, then what's the problem? 


why are you misquoting me quoting you? more spin? Talk about cheap tactics.
 Last edited: by bob9000
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
New Line Home Entertainment has become the latest studio to jump into high-definition disc waters, announcing Sept. 10 that its first next-generation release will be the 2007 musical version of Hairspray.

The film, which grossed $107.3 million in theaters, will be released on standard DVD and Blu-ray Disc Nov. 20. An HD DVD edition will follow, although no firm release date has been set.

New Line’s support of both next-generation formats isn’t surprising, given that the label is distributed by Warner Home Video. Paramount’s recent defection from the Blu-ray camp left Warner the only major studio to support both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD.

Lasorsa said the HD DVD version of Hairspray will most likely be released some time in the first half of next year. He attributes the delay to region coding issues. Blu-ray has region coding, but HD DVD does not. “And since we sell to independent international distributors,” Lasorsa said, “we have to be more sensitive to their release dates than a major studio.”

Even after Hairspray, most New Line titles will be released the same day on both standard DVD and Blu-ray Disc, with a lag for the HD DVD version. “But for second-party acquisitions to which we don’t have international rights,” Lasorsa said, “we will be day-and-date on all three formats.”

The two-disc Blu-ray Disc edition will have all the extras on the “Shake and Shimmy” DVD, as well as an exclusive picture-in-picture option that lets viewers watch behind-the-scenes footage and on-screen commentary while they are watching the movie.

Source: Home Media Retailing

Humm...one of the reasons region coding exists, huh?  You don't say.   That could be a constant thorn in HD DVD's side from New Line Cinema.  That may occur on all their day & date releases, or maybe that HD DVD region coding committee will get to work making New Line happy (via region coding).
To err is human...
-----------
473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbob9000
safety word?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Canada Posts: 844
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
New Line Home Entertainment has become the latest studio to jump into high-definition disc waters, announcing Sept. 10 that its first next-generation release will be the 2007 musical version of Hairspray.

The film, which grossed $107.3 million in theaters, will be released on standard DVD and Blu-ray Disc Nov. 20. An HD DVD edition will follow, although no firm release date has been set.

New Line’s support of both next-generation formats isn’t surprising, given that the label is distributed by Warner Home Video. Paramount’s recent defection from the Blu-ray camp left Warner the only major studio to support both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD.

Lasorsa said the HD DVD version of Hairspray will most likely be released some time in the first half of next year. He attributes the delay to region coding issues. Blu-ray has region coding, but HD DVD does not. “And since we sell to independent international distributors,” Lasorsa said, “we have to be more sensitive to their release dates than a major studio.”

Even after Hairspray, most New Line titles will be released the same day on both standard DVD and Blu-ray Disc, with a lag for the HD DVD version. “But for second-party acquisitions to which we don’t have international rights,” Lasorsa said, “we will be day-and-date on all three formats.”

The two-disc Blu-ray Disc edition will have all the extras on the “Shake and Shimmy” DVD, as well as an exclusive picture-in-picture option that lets viewers watch behind-the-scenes footage and on-screen commentary while they are watching the movie.

Source: Home Media Retailing

Humm...one of the reasons region coding exists, huh?  You don't say.   That could be a constant thorn in HD DVD's side from New Line Cinema.  That may occur on all their day & date releases, or maybe that HD DVD region coding committee will get to work making New Line happy (via region coding).

Is it really necesarry for you to repeat pplchamp's post? he made the point just fine without all of your artificial spin.He is the guy who should be representing Blu ray in here, not you, at least he has integrity and doesn't change people's posts just to suit him.
 Last edited: by bob9000
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
'Nature's Journey' Blu-ray Release Delayed

Originally scheduled for dual-format release this week, the Blu-ray edition of 'Nature's Journey' has been pushed back by a month.

As we first reported back in July, the Blu-ray version of the made-for-high definition title was set to get the upper hand in terms of specs, with a peak 37mbps 1080i video encode and a DTS HD Lossless Master Audio 5.0 surround track vs the HD DVD's 26mpbs 1080i encode and a standard DTS-HD 5.0 surround track.

Now, although the HD DVD edition remains on track for release tomorrow (Sept 11), it seems some unforeseen snags have delayed the souped-up Blu-ray version.

Earlier today, we spoke with the disc's producer Richard Casey, who explained the reasons for the delay.

"We pushed the envelope with our sophisticated BD-J Menus, 37Mbps Video Encodes, and DTS-HD Master Audio," said Casey. "This caused problems for both the Professional Authoring and Compilation Tools as well as Consumer BD Players. Firmware updates and fixes had to be implemented to bring the tools and the players up to spec. We pretty much tripped up every tool and player showing their flaws and weaknesses with this release."

Casey says the Blu-ray edition of is now set for release on October 9th.

Source: Highdefdigest.com

This is good that Richard (the distributor of Nature's Journey) has brought to light some issues with the advanced BD-J he is using.  Now, they can be quickly fixed for future titles.  I've been told that some of those features haven't even been seen, yet.

Those of you with both HD players, I strongly suggest buying this title for HD DVD and Blu-ray.  This title proves the limitations of both formats.  Basically, this is a future scenario made real it this time frame!  See which one you like better.    Someone can report back here with their findings (stefc...I'm looking at you). 
To err is human...
-----------
473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbob9000
safety word?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Canada Posts: 844
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Quoting bob9000:
Quote:

I'm sure things are pleasant when you can just say anything you want and no one challenges you. 


And what exactl;y have I been saying that needed challenging? Unfounded rumours about Blu Ray perhaps? Speculation as fact? I leave that cheap garbage to you. Remember, ASC, I am the guy who thinks both formats are gonna survive and who plans on buying a dual-format player once the price comes down. You are the fanboy who keeps spinning and spamming.
 Last edited: by bob9000
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting bob9000:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
New Line Home Entertainment has become the latest studio to jump into high-definition disc waters, announcing Sept. 10 that its first next-generation release will be the 2007 musical version of Hairspray.

The film, which grossed $107.3 million in theaters, will be released on standard DVD and Blu-ray Disc Nov. 20. An HD DVD edition will follow, although no firm release date has been set.

New Line’s support of both next-generation formats isn’t surprising, given that the label is distributed by Warner Home Video. Paramount’s recent defection from the Blu-ray camp left Warner the only major studio to support both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD.

Lasorsa said the HD DVD version of Hairspray will most likely be released some time in the first half of next year. He attributes the delay to region coding issues. Blu-ray has region coding, but HD DVD does not. “And since we sell to independent international distributors,” Lasorsa said, “we have to be more sensitive to their release dates than a major studio.”

Even after Hairspray, most New Line titles will be released the same day on both standard DVD and Blu-ray Disc, with a lag for the HD DVD version. “But for second-party acquisitions to which we don’t have international rights,” Lasorsa said, “we will be day-and-date on all three formats.”

The two-disc Blu-ray Disc edition will have all the extras on the “Shake and Shimmy” DVD, as well as an exclusive picture-in-picture option that lets viewers watch behind-the-scenes footage and on-screen commentary while they are watching the movie.

Source: Home Media Retailing

Humm...one of the reasons region coding exists, huh?  You don't say.   That could be a constant thorn in HD DVD's side from New Line Cinema.  That may occur on all their day & date releases, or maybe that HD DVD region coding committee will get to work making New Line happy (via region coding).

Is it really necesarry for you to repeat pplchamp's post? he made the point just fine without all of your artificial spin.He is the guy who should be representing Blu ray in here, not you, at least he has integrity and doesn't change people's posts just to suit him.

As usual, you aren't making much sense.  WTH are you talking about?
To err is human...
-----------
473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbob9000
safety word?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Canada Posts: 844
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Those of you with both HD players, I strongly suggest buying this title for HD DVD and Blu-ray.  This title proves the limitations of both formats.  Basically, this is a future scenario made real it this time frame!  See which one you like better.    Someone can report back here with their findings (stefc...I'm looking at you). 

Who in their right mind would buy an HD title in both formats? Seems an expensive way to satisfy idle curiousity....crazy...unless it was you job of course
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbob9000
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
As usual, you aren't making much sense.  WTH are you talking about?
Just pointing out that you are utterly unecessary. We have a respected Blu Ray advocate here...one whose opinions have weight and who generally responds with reason and logic, not spin and speculation like yourself, who no one respects.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
Posted:
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Quoting bob9000:
Quote:
Quoting bob9000:
Quote:

I'm sure things are pleasant when you can just say anything you want and no one challenges you. 


And what exactl;y have I been saying that needed challenging? Unfounded rumours about Blu Ray perhaps? Speculation as fact? I leave that cheap garbage to you. Remember, ASC, I am the guy who thinks both formats are gonna survive. You are the fanboy who keeps spinning and spamming.

In your world, there seems to be no such thing as facts (except your opinion).  Please!  You are spinning NOW.  You are trying to spin up some "credibility" for yourself.  I see though your tactics, so please...
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
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